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Old 11-25-2013, 03:09 PM   #21
Douglas Schmale
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

A rep max is a rep max whether it's at 60% or 95%. When I say you have to be 100%, I mean that very few people have what it takes to gut-out a productive rep-set. Especially in the squat and deadlift, and especially since each movement is practiced only once per week and there's only one real work set. You accumulate some volume leading up to that set, and you can add some more in afterwards, but it's all at too low a percentage to make a difference unless you're already very strong. 5/3/1 is notoriously poor for pressing strength as well.

If you like the plus-set framework, I'd recommend the "Greyskull LP". It's far more interesting than a sets-across program and is very effective for pressing strength and leg hypertrophy. It scales well to a 2/week, squat/press and deadlift/bench set-up. Contrary to 5/3/1, I know several people who got very strong using this program.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:50 PM   #22
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

How is gutting out 5/3/1+ sets harder than gutting out GSLP 5+ sets? I've done both programs for quite a while each, and can tell you that 5/5/5+ at the same weight is far more mentally and physically demanding than 5/5/5+ or 5/3/1+ at 5/3/1's percentages, and more susceptible to failure on an off day.

If you work your assistance work right, you're also able to do squat and deadlift variants 2x per week without any issues. So you get plenty of work on them.

Not sure what would make 5/3/1 "notoriously poor" for pressing strength, seeing how I'm now pressing a 6RM with more than my old GSLP 1RM, and benching 7 reps at 15lbs more than my best GSLP 5RM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:10 PM   #23
Douglas Schmale
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

The 5/5/5+ incorporates more volume. Yes, an off day will get you but you add weight and try again next week. With 5/3/1 when you blow a set, you just blew that rep range for the month. I'm glad you're having success with 5/3/1. I still think the OP would benefit from a number of other programs over 5/3/1. However, if 5/3/1 keeps them more compliant then the alternatives - especially considering the heavy schedule constraints - then that's the program to chose.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:27 PM   #24
Douglas Schmale
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

Also, unless missing something, it looks like you either ran the gslp for a month with no resets or you're comparing your 5/3/1 numbers to gslp numbers that are over a year old. If thats the case then I concede 100% that a year of training will make you stronger.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:29 PM   #25
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

Gotcha.

But one other factor (and one that I think makes 5/3/1 a better fit for his situation) is that you can burn through three 5/3/1 sets much faster than three GSLP sets. You typically need more warmup sets before you get up to your GSLP work set weights, then you may need 5-6 mins of rest time between sets as you get closer to stalling out. If I'm not doing any assistance work that day, I can burn through a 5/3/1 session in about 30-40 minutes total, including 10-15 minutes of general warmup/mobility work.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #26
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Schmale View Post
Also, unless missing something, it looks like you either ran the gslp for a month with no resets or you're comparing your 5/3/1 numbers to gslp numbers that are over a year old. If thats the case then I concede 100% that a year of training will make you stronger.
My blogspot log doesn't go all the way back to the majority of my time on GSLP--I ran GSLP from April 2011 til February 2012, at which point I picked up 5/3/1. My old log is somewhere on the StrengthVillain forums but I stopped going over there awhile back. My most recent month of GSLP was after a two-month layoff when I just wanted to get some quick linear gains before switching back to 5/3/1.

I hit one or two stalls on each lift in my initial time on GSLP, but the main reason I switched is because I was feeling just plain beat-up by the volume of squatting 5/5/5+ twice a week and because my bench and press stalled at the same weights twice in a row. Pretty shortly after moving to 5/3/1 I passed all my old GSLP numbers (though I had a few setbacks due to rugby injuries) and did so without feeling run into the ground all the time.
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Old 11-25-2013, 10:27 PM   #27
Kiel Stuart
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

A bare basics strength program I'd write would consist of three exercises, one each for the three compound movements, push, pull, and lift, with a 3 sets of 6, 4, 2 reps structure and 3 minutes rest in between each set. The exercises would be:

1) Dumbbell Press. A flat (or horizontal) press is the most common angle of contraction you are likely to employ being a vertical animal. For the sake of diversity you could alternate this week on/week off with a seated, incline overhead dumbbell press, or weighted dips. I suggest dumbbells as they offer the advantage of requiring independent stabilization of the arms so you don't get any lateral load transfer as you do with a barbell which allows you to favour your primary arm (usually your right).

2) Bent over (on a flat bench, not standing) kettlebell or dumbell rows. Basically the same rationale as press, can be alternated with weighted chinups or lat pull down, or incline kettlebell, dumbbell or barbell rows.

3) Barbell squats. The legs are a little different in that it's not really a practical concern to train them individually as even when used separately they're generally used with one stabilizing the other. You can alternate this with barbell, kettlebell or dumbbell deadlifts but you're going to get more out of having to stabilize a load on your back.

Working off fixed equipment like a flat bench or barbell cage allows you to get maximum load onto the working area straight away, unlike more complex and difficult movements such as O-lifting where you have to wrangle it up there yourself.

I'd suggest you do this once a week to give your body enough time to recover between sessions. You'll know when it's time to take a week off because you'll feel drained and start to go backwards. If you do this sort of training too often you'll begin going backwards from your second session onwards.

I've done this program myself in the past and got good results, only got stronger.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:02 PM   #28
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

Kiel made an interesting post but to get back to it, you can do BS/DL or BP/OHP in two days a week and minimal time at the gym and even throw accessory stuff in like DE squats or dl, or vertical press variants on bench press, vice versa in under an hour easy.

Possibly doable with CFFB and dunno how long with GSLP. My friend is on gslp and I dont think it takes her long but she is working with weights that seem to light and she does not doconditioning except machine cardio.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:37 PM   #29
Richard Macaulay
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

Eric what is your assistance like?

I went to start gslp and think its great but switched to 5/3/1 b/c its a bit easier on my joints.

Has anyone suggested 5/3/1 boring but big if he's trying to gain size. On busy days just do 5/3/1.

Also worth a look is 5/3/1 for football. Great wendler program with some push pull conditioning as well.

Richard
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:59 PM   #30
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Help me pick a minimal time strength program

I do close grip bench after press, front squats after deadlift, incline bench after bench (sometimes), and RDLs after squats. Reps are 10-10-10 in week 1, 8-8-6 in week 2, and 5-5-5 in week 3....can't remember percentages right off, but they're whatever Wendler recommends for that template in the 2nd ed. book. I also throw in weighted pullups and strict chest to bar chins on press and bench days.
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