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Old 05-15-2013, 07:34 PM   #21
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Vickie Ellickson View Post
Not at all the same. True orthotics are custom built by utilizing a cast mold of your feet. However, for things like squats, pistols, deadlifts or whatever you are doing, orthotics aren't going to be the answer.

Assuming for a minute that there's nothing that is structurally preventing you from doing whatever movements you are trying to do, it's possible you're doing the movements incorrectly. Do you have someone coaching you on technique? If not, when was the last time you posted a vid in the digital coaching section to get feedback on your form?

Do you use weightlifting shoes?

What movements in particular cause you grief?
It's not the movements. I can sense the problem constantly, regardless of what I'm doing. Whether I'm walking or squatting, I can feel it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:40 PM   #22
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Dustin Wintczak View Post
How do you know things are "not lined up" or "parts of the muscles aren't doing anything at all" when clinically (via testing etc) that you say you've had done is showing everything is a-ok. It really does sound like a mental thing, after all you admit in the paragraph above you're never really injuring yourself. You're just quitting because you think you will.
So my question is, have you actually pulled/torn a muscle/ligament/tendon while working out? Just curios.
I had a partial tear to my left quad tendon. I think it happened while squatting after working all day in a refrigerated meat processing facility. However I think my problems were starting before then, and may be what led to the tear. I didn't get the tear repaired for 3 years so that may have led to complications.

I know things aren't lined up, or something like that because nothing feels right, and all of my symptoms, at least to me, seem to fit fairly well with the idea of things not being lined up. Quads that don't work at all like they should, or did in the past. I have good balance, but can't stay still on one leg, I think because you can't be stable no matter how good your balance is if all the structures holding you up aren't lined up correctly. Even while lying down to sleep on my side I can tell that my knees touch each other differently. It's much more bone on bone than it used to be, as if my legs have bent inward.

I quit because something starts hurting and I don't want it to get worse.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:43 PM   #23
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Alfredo Mendoza View Post
It's great that you're seeing a PT about this. "Bowed legs" and heavy weights make for a tough combination. I'm a firm believer that the "air squat" serves as a foundational and corrective exercise. If you "bow out" when you're air squatting, you'll most likely bow out when you squat with weight. This can cause inflammation in various places, patellar tracking issues and muscular imbalance to name a few results. Your PT should teach you to corrective exercises to get you towards squatting perfectly (weight on heels, knees tracking over the toes, the back in neutral position and the chest up).
Take it back to basics and build from there. Good luck.
Perfect squats still feel terrible. I'll squat with good form as far as the PT's can tell and it will feel terrible. Not painful, but nothing like it felt 10 years ago.

For example, even walking up stairs, I don't feel it in my quads at all. I only feel it in my hams. This is not the way it was years ago.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:46 AM   #24
Jeff Enge
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Re: Bowed Legs

10 years? And how old are you?

I'm going to reiterate that I think you should see some kind of psychologist. You are way overthinking this if 10 years of specialists have told you nothing is wrong internally and you are still borderline obsessing about what you think "fires" when you walk and how your legs touch when you lay down. Muscle structure is known well enough that dangerous misalignments would be noticed, probably multiple times, in that period.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:22 AM   #25
Dustin Wintczak
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Bradley James Thompson View Post
I had a partial tear to my left quad tendon. I think it happened while squatting after working all day in a refrigerated meat processing facility. However I think my problems were starting before then, and may be what led to the tear. I didn't get the tear repaired for 3 years so that may have led to complications.
Sure I can understand that, I've torn my pectoralis major, seperated both shoulders (the left one twice), broken my wrist, ankle etc . It takes time to recover. My shoulders aren't level anymore, my pec bunches up when I flex it, we've all got imbalances. You just can't be afraid that you're going to cause injury everytime something feels uncomfortable.

Quote:
I know things aren't lined up, or something like that because nothing feels right, and all of my symptoms, at least to me, seem to fit fairly well with the idea of things not being lined up. Quads that don't work at all like they should, or did in the past. I have good balance, but can't stay still on one leg, I think because you can't be stable no matter how good your balance is if all the structures holding you up aren't lined up correctly. Even while lying down to sleep on my side I can tell that my knees touch each other differently. It's much more bone on bone than it used to be, as if my legs have bent inward.

I quit because something starts hurting and I don't want it to get worse.
Again all the thing in bold literally mean nothing...nada, zip, zilch...nothing. You will not find "thing not being lined up" or "Quads that don't work at all like they should" in any clinical diagnosis..anywhere period. If the battery of testing you've been through (by your own admission) continues to tell you that there is nothing physically wrong with you...then guess what. There isn't. Your symptoms don't line up with ANY physiological diagnosis that I've ever heard of. You're all over the board, in this thread alone you've complained about

- Knees touching each other differently
- Quads that don't work like they used to
- Can't stand on one leg
- legs bending inward
- legs bowed
- "structures" holding you up aren't lined up
- Muscles are "twisted"
- Muscles unable to "fire"


That's just this thread.

The facts are this:

-Not a single doctor/PT has been able to find anything strucurally wrong with you.
-You can't describe in a clinical manner what your actual problems are. You use vague terms that really mean nothing and aren't even consistent with one another.

You're basically left with two options.

1) It's a neuro-musclar issue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromuscular_disease (WFS)

Or

2) It's 100% mental. Strictly a psychological problem.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #26
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Wintczak View Post
Sure I can understand that, I've torn my pectoralis major, seperated both shoulders (the left one twice), broken my wrist, ankle etc . It takes time to recover. My shoulders aren't level anymore, my pec bunches up when I flex it, we've all got imbalances. You just can't be afraid that you're going to cause injury everytime something feels uncomfortable.



Again all the thing in bold literally mean nothing...nada, zip, zilch...nothing. You will not find "thing not being lined up" or "Quads that don't work at all like they should" in any clinical diagnosis..anywhere period. If the battery of testing you've been through (by your own admission) continues to tell you that there is nothing physically wrong with you...then guess what. There isn't. Your symptoms don't line up with ANY physiological diagnosis that I've ever heard of. You're all over the board, in this thread alone you've complained about

- Knees touching each other differently
- Quads that don't work like they used to
- Can't stand on one leg
- legs bending inward
- legs bowed
- "structures" holding you up aren't lined up
- Muscles are "twisted"
- Muscles unable to "fire"


That's just this thread.

The facts are this:

-Not a single doctor/PT has been able to find anything strucurally wrong with you.
-You can't describe in a clinical manner what your actual problems are. You use vague terms that really mean nothing and aren't even consistent with one another.

You're basically left with two options.

1) It's a neuro-musclar issue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromuscular_disease (WFS)

Or

2) It's 100% mental. Strictly a psychological problem.
It's not psychological.

How do I know?

Doctors DO find something wrong. Not a lot but something.

These are all per doctors/PT's

Chondromalacia in the joints as revealed by MRI.
Fluid around joint as shown by ultrasound.
Some patellar tracking issues.
Arches that collapse.

My knees make constant noises throughout the range of motion. Lots of creaking.

My knees pop.

PAIN. Yes, I get pain.

McConnell tape helps. Just a bit, but it definitely helped. If nothing were wrong, nothing would help.

Given the above, added to the distinct problems I sense, there IS a problem.

The psychological excuse is just that. An excuse.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:37 PM   #27
Dustin Wintczak
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Re: Bowed Legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley James Thompson View Post
It's not psychological.

How do I know?

Doctors DO find something wrong. Not a lot but something.

These are all per doctors/PT's

Chondromalacia in the joints as revealed by MRI.
Fluid around joint as shown by ultrasound.
Some patellar tracking issues.
Arches that collapse.

My knees make constant noises throughout the range of motion. Lots of creaking.

My knees pop.

PAIN. Yes, I get pain.


McConnell tape helps. Just a bit, but it definitely helped. If nothing were wrong, nothing would help.

Given the above, added to the distinct problems I sense, there IS a problem.

The psychological excuse is just that. An excuse.
Again, just like I mentioned above...none of those ailments are injuries. Can they be painful? Sure. Are they a nusciance? Yep. The bottom line is all of those things you just listed can be treated and managed. Take ibuprofen, put on rock tape, purchase some knee braces, ankle wraps, belt, lifting shoes etc.

Or stop lifting and ride a bike or take up swimming rowing or whatever doesn't aggrevate your body.

When I lift I wear Oly shoes, Rehband knee braces on both knees, a belt and wrist wraps. Why? Because I'm approaching my mid 30's and things just kind of hurt or ache. You need to understand the difference between being hurt and being injured, the things you list make you hurt but they aren't injuries.

My knees pop and crack, my wrist was hurting this morning...my shoulders have been in state between healthy and painful for over a year now. You're not the only one who's not 100% healthy. The difference lies in how we choose to deal with it. Which is the mental part I keep talking about.

Your choice is to suck it up and deal with the pain or don't lift. You're making this a way more difficult decision than it needs to be.

Last edited by Dustin Wintczak : 05-20-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:29 PM   #28
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Wintczak View Post
Again, just like I mentioned above...none of those ailments are injuries. Can they be painful? Sure. Are they a nusciance? Yep. The bottom line is all of those things you just listed can be treated and managed. Take ibuprofen, put on rock tape, purchase some knee braces, ankle wraps, belt, lifting shoes etc.

Or stop lifting and ride a bike or take up swimming rowing or whatever doesn't aggrevate your body.

When I lift I wear Oly shoes, Rehband knee braces on both knees, a belt and wrist wraps. Why? Because I'm approaching my mid 30's and things just kind of hurt or ache. You need to understand the difference between being hurt and being injured, the things you list make you hurt but they aren't injuries.

My knees pop and crack, my wrist was hurting this morning...my shoulders have been in state between healthy and painful for over a year now. You're not the only one who's not 100% healthy. The difference lies in how we choose to deal with it. Which is the mental part I keep talking about.

Your choice is to suck it up and deal with the pain or don't lift. You're making this a way more difficult decision than it needs to be.
I didn't say I was injured.

The problem is that I have a problem that isn't just about pain. It's about a real misalignment that affects literally every movement I make with my legs and which I can sense ever second of my life. The problem is that it's a problem that can likely be fixed, but that I don't know how to fix.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:06 PM   #29
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Bowed Legs

These are issues best addressed by a doc and pt, not the crossfit forum. It is unlikely that we can help you.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:20 PM   #30
Bradley James Thompson
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Re: Bowed Legs

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Originally Posted by Bill M. Hesse View Post
These are issues best addressed by a doc and pt, not the crossfit forum. It is unlikely that we can help you.
The problem is that about a dozen of each of those has done nothing to help whatsoever, and neither has shown any commitment to getting to the bottom of it, except maybe one, except they could not be convinced that they didn't fix the problem.

I go to a doctor, and they pretty much admit that unless something is broken, there's not much they can do. So they either say see a PT or they say that I have to live with it, or they just throw their hands up in the air and don't say anything.

So I go to a PT and they come up with some diagnosis, which I'm sorry to say, each time I go seems more and more as they explain like they don't really know what's wrong, so they come up with some decent sounding diagnosis and pretty much just hope the cookie-cutter program they're about to give me works. It never seems like anyone has any confidence in what they tell me, or it's like they're trying to fake confidence. I can't remember the last time I've gotten a good vibe from anyone to give me any indication that they really know how to fix the problem. And so we spend the next few weeks doing things that at best only attempt to treat symptoms, but which ultimately doesn't even do that. Then they either proclaim me to be improved, or they extremely sheepishly say they don't know how to fix it and shove me out the door an wipe their hands clean of the whole issue, and hope to never see me again.

This is what I've been doing for 8 years.

Right now, I'm 5 sessions into another round of PT and if anything, my legs/knees feel worse.

I'm running out of facilities to try around here and I have no idea how to find anyone who will actually have some commitment to resolving things. That's what I need help with.

Last edited by Bradley James Thompson : 05-21-2013 at 10:24 PM.
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