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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 02-03-2014, 09:18 AM   #1
Jason Petrillo
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T2B vs. K2E

Can anyone explain why Knees-to-Elbow (K2E) is a scale for T2B. It is much easier to tuck your knees and kick the bar versus getting your knee all the way into that elbow joint. Just a thought...
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:54 AM   #2
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

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Originally Posted by Jason Petrillo View Post
Can anyone explain why Knees-to-Elbow (K2E) is a scale for T2B. It is much easier to tuck your knees and kick the bar versus getting your knee all the way into that elbow joint. Just a thought...
Much easier for you; not necessarily for everyone. Consider that some people, when hanging from that bar, can barely lift their legs at all, much less tuck their knees and kick the bar.

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Old 02-03-2014, 11:37 AM   #3
Mike D Lawson
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

true knee to elbows are harder for me than T2B but ive seen them as a scaling option where its really just "knees as high as you can "
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:40 AM   #4
Greg Warren
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

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Originally Posted by Mike D Lawson View Post
true knee to elbows are harder for me than T2B but ive seen them as a scaling option where its really just "knees as high as you can "
That's three entirely different exercises you're describing, then. Toes to bar, Knees to Elbow & Hanging Knee Raises.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:44 PM   #5
Clint Harris
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

I'd hate to get into another size/tall guy debate, but at 5'6" 150#, almost any bodyweight movement isn't going to seem all that difficult.

At 6'2" and 250#, stringing multiple K2E (actual elbow) is much easier than T2B. There's less I have to move.
And if my hamstrings are especially tight (39yrs, ravaged by sports and lack of maintenance), that little extra kick you talk of gets a little tougher. Often it's my grip that gives first onT2B anyway.
There's also a learned technique to be able to effectively make K2E and T2B essentially the same movement - it's not like someone just gets on the bar and naturally does a T2B via a K2E/kick. So, first, learn the K2E (scale) so that you can transfer to a T2B.

For the completely deconditioned and noob- the mere fact that there's less distance to move is huge. The other aspect is that K2E is a pre-req for T2B.

If you are able to do T2B - why scale to K2E unless it is specifically programed - and then you'll just turn over more reps for a conditioning effect.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:41 AM   #6
Brendan McNamar
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

I have to agree K2E done to correct standards are harder then T2B.

K2E are just seldom done to standards. I judged a competition where every athlete had black lines drawn across the elbows to make it easier to judge rep quality and the moment destroyed everyone.

I do believe less then full range of motion K2E is part of the progression to T2B. Good T2B is part of the progression to good K2E.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:40 AM   #7
Jason Petrillo
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

Greg, I am aware of the 3 different movements and I perform all of them well. Clint, I can see the debate about having longer limbs etc, etc, but with my body, and the athletes that I coach (up to 6'4"), NONE can do true K2E as well as they can so T2B. The people that claim to do K2E well generally are nowhere near their elbow joint at the "completion" of each rep.

This is just meant as a general discussion. I have a really good pic of me doing a t2b this past weekend in a competition and you can see that my toes have contacted the bar, but my knees are still very far away from my elbow joint. If I can figure out how to load it from my phone I will
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:10 PM   #8
Clint Harris
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

It's also quite possible that I simply do K2E better than T2B too. For me, I'm talking about reps of 3-4 at a time too. So it's not like I'm stringing them in bunches. Kip is pretty muted too.
I also see the "to armpits" or "to triceps" pretty much religiously too - especially from people who "go really fast". Often the same one's who snake 20 push-ups or are constantly folded in half when doing burpees.
I do make it a point to follow this:
"You have knees. You have elbows. Touch them" -- Howard

Typically for me, toes more easily go over the bar too. So to actually touch them I have to alter. Whilst it is probably still legit to go over - it is easier to hold some level of standard to actually touch them (otherwise, how will I really know if I miss unless I do ankles to bar.).
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:32 PM   #9
Dakota Base
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

Interesting thread. I have always been under the impression that T2B are scaled sub's for proper K2E...

Difficulty between these exercises for different athletes can come from different sources. I've trained with guys with low upper body strength, in which case K2E was harder for them. I've trained with guys that had tightness in their hamstrings and hip flexors, so extending their toes to the bar was harder than flexing their legs to do K2E.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:19 AM   #10
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: T2B vs. K2E

I think of T2B as Hanging Leg lifts with a kip action.

If you bend your knees to compensate for poor hamstring flexibility or kick the bar, they become a lot easier. Similar to K2E.

Years ago, I had the adult gymnastics class compare them strict as they weren't linked by a kip in those days as much. We found the K2E recruited the delts more whereas the HLL fatigued the hip flexors and abs more.

If you allow the head to break out of the shoulders in a HLL you can recruit the lats like K2E.

K2E are much easier for me than T2B but that's because my legs are straight on T2B until I am super fatigued and out of wind more than ab strength.
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