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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-05-2011, 02:36 AM   #1
Martin Bauer
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Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

On the 31th December HQ posted a video of Crossfit Again Faster, that showed a SWAT Team, that had Murph as its entry/fitness test.
What do you think about that?
In my opinion Murph shows that you have good metabolic conditioning and that you have good (muscle) endurance and can do a lot of pull-ups, push-ups and squats
It does not say a lot about how strong you are.
,a bout how fast you can sprint
and how fast you can do job-related tasks (negotiating obstacles, ...)
or does it?
I don't really see any reason to choose Murph instead of the (modern) standard test with ecents like:
illinois agilty test or something like that
longish run
2min push-ups
max dead hang pull-ups (I'm aware of the elimination of met-con)
buddy carry
...

or do I not see something?
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:41 AM   #2
Scott A Martin
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

It also disadvantages anyone who doesn't know how to kip.

But more important is the reason you cite. It doesn't seem like Murph tests the attributes that are most important for the job.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:58 PM   #3
Richard Lee Sattro
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Operator Ugly would be better and anyone can do it. Most people (i.e. people outside of CF) do all of those exercise for the most part with the exception of the SBGU, and Front Squats.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:54 PM   #4
Jason Wallis
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Murph tests mental toughness, the most important factor in the job.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:57 AM   #5
Wayne Riddle
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Wallis View Post
Murph tests mental toughness, the most important factor in the job.
Better ways of doing that without risking screwing up their shoulders.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:29 AM   #6
Nick Hoffman
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

I agree with Richard. Operator Ugly is a great gym test.

I don't think Murph would be appropriate for what SWAT does, as it's primarily testing BW endurance. When I think of SWAT, I think speed and power. Kicking down the door, and taking the badguys by surprise before they have time to down anything stupid. I could be wrong though, as I've never been a police officer.

I think some kind of job related agility test would be great. Like with fire depts. you run up stars, raise ladders and drag stuff. I'd imagine a SWAT test could have sprints/ obstacles in body armor and eating donuts for time ( ).
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:41 AM   #7
Shane Skowron
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Wallis View Post
Murph tests mental toughness, the most important factor in the job.
But there are lots of things that test mental toughness, to an even greater degree. Why is this superior?
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:27 PM   #8
Justin Ziegler
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bauer View Post
In my opinion Murph shows that you have good metabolic conditioning and that you have good (muscle) endurance and can do a lot of pull-ups, push-ups and squats
It does not say a lot about how strong you are.
I think the bigger question is: Why do PFTs in general put such an emphasis on muscular endurance at the expense of other fitness aspects?
As someone who depends on my crewmembers' physical capabilities, I would rather see someone do Murph than do max reps of one exercise in a timed allowance, then rest and go to the next exercise. It seriously irked me last season that I knew I was the strongest person on the crew. I wasn't the best runner but I knew that all of us could gain from some conditioning aside from trail running and push-ups.
This is the best PFT I have seen in fire to date and it still is easily improved:
http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges...s%20matrix.pdf (WFS)
Why is the best? Because it has some strength testing. Not the best exercises but I don't think it is wise to have the liability of bad instruction in squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc.

SWAT isn't the same as what I do either so physical testing should reflect that. If I knew more about the regular demands put on the officers, I would critique but I can't. But I think my overall point remains is why are all PT tests and muscular endurance (with a splash of running) and why are they all the same in law enforcement, fire, medical, military?
I should reread, "Why does the Army want me weak?".
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:58 PM   #9
Jason Wallis
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
But there are lots of things that test mental toughness, to an even greater degree. Why is this superior?
If you're asking why Murph is a superior test... it's not, IMO. However, it does give screeners a chance to see which candidates choose to push through when gut-check time rolls around.
If you're asking why mental toughness is the most important attribute... Again, my opinion only, is that mentally tough people are the type that will be prepared for any situation, the ones who will take their training seriously.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:12 PM   #10
Doug Blankenship
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Re: Murph as Swat Team Entry Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bauer View Post
On the 31th December HQ posted a video of Crossfit Again Faster, that showed a SWAT Team, that had Murph as its entry/fitness test.
What do you think about that?
In my opinion Murph shows that you have good metabolic conditioning and that you have good (muscle) endurance and can do a lot of pull-ups, push-ups and squats
It does not say a lot about how strong you are.
,a bout how fast you can sprint
and how fast you can do job-related tasks (negotiating obstacles, ...)
or does it?
I don't really see any reason to choose Murph instead of the (modern) standard test with ecents like:
illinois agilty test or something like that
longish run
2min push-ups
max dead hang pull-ups (I'm aware of the elimination of met-con)
buddy carry
...

or do I not see something?
The modern standard test is good for someone trying to become a police officer, not a swat recruit. I also think there are many other workouts one could design that would be more job specific for a swat recruit. There isn't really a need to do Murph, other then a mental toughness gut check.

Anyone can design a workout that makes you question why the hell your doing it. In this case I would make the test more job specific and make it hard as hell.
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