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Old 12-11-2005, 12:40 AM   #11
John Burket
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I know all the coffee drinkers out there are going to hate this, but coffee is not food. You can live without coffee, and although it sounds harsh, let's call it what it is - a drug! This article is the heavy-hitter that got my attention:
http://www.newstarget.com/z012352.html
Be prepared to come down in your physical performance if you are brave enough to dump caffeine. I've been off the drug (that's right, drug) for three weeks, and my physical performance is still sub-par. I'll let you know how long it takes to get back to normal, adenalin wise.

John
http://sookagym.tripod.com
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:51 AM   #12
Beth Moscov
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You can live without a lot of things we use all the time and no one is saying we should get rid of the dependence. things we call food (chocolate, wine, grains, meat, etc), exercise, medicine, sex, and a lot more.

I think I am more interested in quality of life and my performance is better when I wear appropriate clothing, eat properly, exercise regularly, make love a few times a week, and take caffiene once or twice a day.

John, as for your original question of how long will it take to get back to normal? Whenever I have quit caffience for any length of time, it only takes a few days. You might want to get a blood panel and a physical to see if there is something else underlying that you were self medicating with the caffiene. On the other hand, you might never have the same level of performance as with the caffiene simply because it is a performance enhancer.

By the way, a good book to read to get a balanced opinion about caffiene research is The Caffiene Advantage. The researchers did two major studies on caffiene. They didn't do individual studies, they did studies of all the current research out there evaluating all the research, and balancing all the results. They ended up feeling pretty good about caffiene. So did I after reading it and I was very anti-caffiene before that. And I am NOT one of those folks that reads a book and is swayed to their opinion very easily.

(Message edited by beth_moscov on December 11, 2005)
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:03 AM   #13
Tirzah Harper
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Mate is definitely an acquired taste...and I'm glad I acquired it! :happy: It definitely gives an energy boost that I use frequently as a substitute for sufficient sleep...not the best idea, I'm sure, but the best one that I can implement at this time....
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:03 AM   #14
Bryan Edge
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Color me skeptical. I've quit coffee periodically (for a month) and never noticed any serious performance drop in the gym -- I've had some pretty damn good days without it, I might add.

Admittedly, I'm drinking more coffee now than I used to, thanks mainly to a 2-year old that pretty much insures I never get enough rest (and another little one is on the way in Feb 06).

I don't like drinking as much caffeine as I do (I used to be a 1-2 cups a day bloke -- now I'm more like 2-4 cups, depending on how much rest I've had...). I think moderation is the way to go. I LIKE coffee, and aside from cussing like a sailor, it's one of my few vices. :happy:

Well, aside from an addiction to Crossfit.

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Old 12-12-2005, 12:34 PM   #15
John Burket
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My gym performance is still not up to par, and it's been three weeks. I just can't "generate" the adrenalin rush I had before.

I'd like to ask Ian Holmes how it's going after 8 weeks of caffeine withdrawal, specifically, any sluggishness? (I'm hoping there is some light at the end of the tunnel.)

John
http://sookagym.tripod.com
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:58 PM   #16
David Wood
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I've always understood Yerba Matte to have various other stimulants that are closely related to caffiene, specifically xanthine, theophylline and theobromine. My impression was that these are pretty much chemical "cousins" of caffiene and subject to most of the same advantages / disadvantages.
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:13 PM   #17
Lynne Pitts
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Boy, am I getting slack! This needs to go to nutrition. So off it goes...
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Old 12-13-2005, 04:46 AM   #18
Brian Hand
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John, you know how AAS users often suffer from supression of endogenous testosterone production? I wonder if your adrenals were dependant on caffine to stimulate them, and it is going to take some time for them to recover. Supposedly DHEA can help adrenals recover from exhaustion; but that is a supplement that can open a whole nother can of worms.
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:17 AM   #19
Brad Hirakawa
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In my opinion, newstarget.com seems to be a mix of part good stuff and part pseudoscience.

Caffeine is fine, for most people, at moderate doses. If you suck down kilograms of the stuff, or are a sensitive individual (for whatever reason), then there may be problems.

Brad

edit: perhaps some light green tea to take the edge off your symptoms.. just a dash of caffeine in there?

(Message edited by hirakawa on December 13, 2005)
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:33 AM   #20
Brad Hirakawa
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John,
I looked up a few articles. I used the key words "caffeine withdrawal" and restricted the results to human (not lab animal) studies. I selected a few from the first 5 pages of results. There were 14 pages, but I have to get to work. I hope this helps a bit. If you don't have access to a library, I can find time to look up a few and e-mail them to you.
Brad

1: Miller MC.
What are caffeine's psychological benefits and risks?
Harv Ment Health Lett. 2005 Sep;22(3):8. No abstract available.
PMID: 16224836 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2: Stafford LD, Yeomans MR.
Caffeine deprivation state modulates coffee consumption but not attentional
bias for caffeine-related stimuli.
Behav Pharmacol. 2005 Nov;16(7):559-71.
PMID: 16170233 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3: James JE, Rogers PJ.
Effects of caffeine on performance and mood: withdrawal reversal is the most
plausible explanation.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Oct;182(1):1-8. Epub 2005 Jul 2.
PMID: 16001109 [PubMed - in process]

4: James JE, Gregg ME, Kane M, Harte F.
Dietary caffeine, performance and mood: enhancing and restorative effects after
controlling for withdrawal reversal.
Neuropsychobiology. 2005;52(1):1-10. Epub 2005 Jun 3.
PMID: 15942257 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

5: Rogers PJ, Heatherley SV, Hayward RC, Seers HE, Hill J, Kane M.
Effects of caffeine and caffeine withdrawal on mood and cognitive performance
degraded by sleep restriction.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Jun;179(4):742-52. Epub 2005 Jan 26.
PMID: 15887055 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

6: Heatherley SV, Hayward RC, Seers HE, Rogers PJ.
Cognitive and psychomotor performance, mood, and pressor effects of caffeine
after 4, 6 and 8 h caffeine abstinence.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Apr;178(4):461-70. Epub 2005 Feb 5.
PMID: 15696321 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

7: Haskell CF, Kennedy DO, Wesnes KA, Scholey AB.
Cognitive and mood improvements of caffeine in habitual consumers and habitual
non-consumers of caffeine.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Jun;179(4):813-25. Epub 2005 Jan 28.
PMID: 15678363 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

8: Smit HJ, Cotton JR, Hughes SC, Rogers PJ.
Mood and cognitive performance effects of "energy" drink constituents:
caffeine, glucose and carbonation.
Nutr Neurosci. 2004 Jun;7(3):127-39.
PMID: 15526987 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

9: Juliano LM, Griffiths RR.
A critical review of caffeine withdrawal: empirical validation of symptoms and
signs, incidence, severity, and associated features.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2004 Oct;176(1):1-29. Epub 2004 Sep 21. Review.
PMID: 15448977 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

10: Sjaastad O, Bakketeig LS.
Caffeine-withdrawal headache. The Vaga study of headache epidemiology.
Cephalalgia. 2004 Apr;24(4):241-9.
PMID: 15030532 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

11: Notarius CF, Rongen GA, Floras JS.
Caffeine and coffee tolerance.
Circulation. 2003 Aug 12;108(6):e38-40; author reply e38-40. No abstract
available.
PMID: 12914013 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

12: Field AS, Laurienti PJ, Yen YF, Burdette JH, Moody DM.
Dietary caffeine consumption and withdrawal: confounding variables in
quantitative cerebral perfusion studies?
Radiology. 2003 Apr;227(1):129-35. Epub 2003 Feb 28.
PMID: 12616005 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

13: Reeves RR, Struve FA, Patrick G.
Topographic quantitative EEG response to acute caffeine withdrawal: a
comprehensive analysis of multiple quantitative variables.
Clin Electroencephalogr. 2002 Oct;33(4):178-88.
PMID: 12449850 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

14: Yeomans MR, Ripley T, Davies LH, Rusted JM, Rogers PJ.
Effects of caffeine on performance and mood depend on the level of caffeine
abstinence.
Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2002 Nov;164(3):241-9. Epub 2002 Sep 11.
PMID: 12424547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

15: Dews PB, O'Brien CP, Bergman J.
Caffeine: behavioral effects of withdrawal and related issues.
Food Chem Toxicol. 2002 Sep;40(9):1257-61. Review.
PMID: 12204389 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

16: Smith A.
Effects of caffeine on human behavior.
Food Chem Toxicol. 2002 Sep;40(9):1243-55. Review.
PMID: 12204388 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

17: Spencer B.
Caffeine withdrawal: a model for migraine?
Headache. 2002 Jun;42(6):561-2. No abstract available.
PMID: 12167153 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

18: Joseph S.
Caffeine addiction and its effects.
Nurs Times. 2001 Aug 2-8;97(31):42-3. No abstract available.
PMID: 11957540 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

19: Graham TE.
Caffeine and exercise: metabolism, endurance and performance.
Sports Med. 2001;31(11):785-807. Review.
PMID: 11583104 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

20: Griffiths RR, Chausmer AL.
Caffeine as a model drug of dependence: recent developments in understanding
caffeine withdrawal, the caffeine dependence syndrome, and caffeine negative
reinforcement.
Nihon Shinkei Seishin Yakurigaku Zasshi. 2000 Nov;20(5):223-31. Review.
PMID: 11326548 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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