CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > Community > Community
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Community Catch all category for CrossFit community discussion.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-15-2006, 11:41 PM   #11
Jared Waltz
Member Jared Waltz is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sundance  WY
Posts: 103
Not sure if this is too lighthearted for this discussion, but I heard a funny comedian the other day talking about drugs and athletes:

I figure I'm paying good money to see these sports - I think the players should be required to juice up and give us the best performance money and medical science can deliver! :-)

(his other material is good too, look up Daniel Tosh)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 08:25 AM   #12
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
Nearly all vitamins on store shelves are created in a lab. Same thing with anabolic steroids (birth control pills technically fall into the same category, estrogens are very anabolic). What's the difference? I couldn't tell you.

Science says that they have different structures. That means little to me. They are both taken for performance enhancement. They both exert effects on the human system, mostly to a long-term detriment on overall health. That being said, there is no research (that I have found or know of) showing that properly-dosed anabolic steroid use is any more dangerous than other pharmaceuticals--it's actually much *less* risky! Don't bother posting major media reports, they don't even begin to understand what they are talking about (besides their agenda), please dig into the scientific literature if you feel the need to do so.

If we want to ban synthetic substances, ban them all. Enlarge the drug war! It's been working so well :crazy:!

People have been cheating forever, it's due to this little 'survival of the fittest' instinct we are born with. However that gets changed/interpreted in our modern 'civilized' world is a whole other matter.

Now paying grown men outrageous sums of money to play children's games, that's where the problem starts.

Dr. G
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 08:34 AM   #13
Craig Van De Walker
Member Craig Van De Walker is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaverton  OR
Posts: 872
Some of my humble observations on human nature

1. The field will never be "level" according to everyones point of view.

2. Many want an edge. Sometimes that edge is what many consider fair, such as being dedicated to training smart and hard, both physical and mental. Sometimes it is in the form of steriods, stimulants, etc. (but don't take my coffee away)

3. When the stakes are high, add a multiplier to #2

4. There is almost always a price for #2. The more extreme the measures usually the higher the price. Sometimes the hard trainer pays this price as well as the steriod user.

5. People usually decide what they are going to do, then will do everything they can to justify it after the fact.


Side note (rant)--There are millions of Americans on drugs daily both perscription and non. Many of which are more dangerous than steriods. I read somewhere that last year ~7,000 deaths were the result of in-hospital medication errors in the U.S.. Sounds to me like a lot of drugs are more dangerous than steriods. If you count the number on Medicare/medicaide the govt. is paying possibly billions for people to use drugs (but I digress). Most of these meds IMO are required for lifestyle induced problems. If you only take TypeII diabetes, which is completely lifestyle induced and curable without meds (only willpower, which seems to be in short supply in the majority of modern Americans).
I wont even start on heart disease, in fact I'll end my rant now by saying I am not in support of steriod use but I don't spend much time thinking about it either. I am not convinced it gives a large edge in many non-strenght athletic events (but I'm not always correct at least according to my lovely wife)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 09:35 AM   #14
Brad Hirakawa
Member Brad Hirakawa is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 761
Shoot up, eat up, sniff up. As long as they leave me alone, and don't hurt my friends or family, I could give a rats *** what they do. Rats ***... I love that phrase, I just ran a gene array on rat muscle last week. :-) I agree with Craig... "I am not in support of steroid use, but I don't spend much (any) time thinking about it either."

I do not exactly see how you can compare steroids to prescription drugs... because steroids are prescription drugs. They do have a place in legitimate medicine. But I think I understand what you're getting at.

Difference between vitamins and drugs... yes, structure. Structure of a molecule will determine it's action on the body or the body's action on the molecule.. pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics.

Repeat please, "All substances are poisons, there are none that are not. It is the dose that differentiates a poison from a remedy." We (scientists) deserve some of the blame for not making this information more public... maybe scientists and doctors should make more efforts to make patients aware of the risks of taking prescription drugs. Many of them are very safe, and many folks take them for decades with no problems. However, some folks react differently than others, there are drug-drug (or drug-herb!) interactions to worry about, race, age, sex, lifestyle, genes, etc. There is a risk-benefit decision you have to make before you take a drug. Is the possible risk (side effects) worth the possible benefit (alleviating a symptom, disease, condition, etc.)?

My entire department is devoted to developing safer drugs, but it is difficult and time consuming work. It is a large department, and you would not believe our budget.

Ask Lance Armstrong what he thinks of prescription drugs. Well, I guess his condition was severe enough that he probably had little choice.



Brad
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 09:36 AM   #15
Brad Hirakawa
Member Brad Hirakawa is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 761
"Now paying grown men outrageous sums of money to play children's games, that's where the problem starts."

I missed that part Dr. G... almost laughed up my tea when I read that. :-) Too true!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 08:49 PM   #16
Steve Shafley
Banned Steve Shafley is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saginaw  MI
Posts: 508
The big problem with the demonization of anabolics is that their legitimate medical use is curtailed, leaving doctors to use crappy drugs like Megase when administering AAS would be a more appropriate treatment.

Plus the media and the government wasting everyone's time oohing and aahing over the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 09:43 PM   #17
Patrick Johnston
Member Patrick Johnston is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Modesto  Ca
Posts: 361
Nice post Garrett. I agree with your points.

I wouldn't call them junkies. If you don't want to pay them for what they are doing, that's your choice. Just make sure you throw away your "big three" sports items, your yellow bracelet, and don't watch the Olympics.

But, to answer your question as to why "we" pay them millions of dollars, it is because it is entertainment. People want to see home runs, world records, etc. It is economic competition at its "purest". I say just sit back and enjoy it.

Lastly, I think the demonization of steriods is ridiculous. It reminds me of Refer Madness. Though I am not condoning their unapproved use. I do, however, predict that within our lifetime hormone replacement therapy will be a standard practice for aging men.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2006, 10:24 PM   #18
Chuck Pelowski
Member Chuck Pelowski is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lubbock  TX
Posts: 88
Garrett - Word.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2006, 09:15 AM   #19
Garrett Smith
Member Garrett Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson  AZ
Posts: 2,264
Note--just wanted to say this, not trying purposely to hijack the thread.

I just have to add one other thing--I don't believe for a second that Lance Armstrong is completely "clean". For those of you who didn't know already, for a man who doesn't have one or both testicles and tests low or low-normal in testosterone, all of a sudden it is okay to give them exogenous testosterone. The only limit is the "high" end, which may be a heck of a lot more than Mr. Armstrong's body sat at normally.

Cyclists are among, if not, the biggest dopers in sports and I don't believe that someone can go into a sport that prides itself on destroying the human body over three week periods and not be taking extra "supplements" to induce recovery. I do respect his grit, determination, and work ethic. I just think him and his team are great at circumventing the rules, finding loopholes, and being innovative (read: ahead of the testers) with their substances. Brad, I have no doubt in my mind how Lance feels about pharmaceuticals--for the reasons of helping to save his life and for the millions of dollars he's raking in from them. I mean, he's pimping them on TV now, right? :happy:

I have heard a rumor that Lance's hemoglobin may have mutated during the chemo/radiation treatments, allowing it to carry five oxygen molecules instead of four. Does anyone know of any studies relating to this subject or any references? That would help explain some of this.

Lance's team has also embraced 'alternative' recovery methods, seemingly to their benefit. I know one of the techniques they used was 'earthing', similar to what is described on this page http://www.cutcat.com/earthtetherinfo.pdf .

Reconnecting with the Earth. What a concept!

Dr. G
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2006, 11:11 AM   #20
Steve Shafley
Banned Steve Shafley is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saginaw  MI
Posts: 508
I've been thrown off message boards for suggesting the same thing.



  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steroids Alex Nisetich Fitness 85 05-05-2008 03:46 PM
Presentation on Steroids, the Media, and the Law Steve Shafley Community 0 05-18-2006 01:18 PM
Steroids John Walsh Nutrition 11 12-22-2005 01:01 PM
"You must be doing steroids." Jon Michael Varese Testimonials 16 05-27-2005 09:02 PM
Olympics and Steroids Brad Hirakawa Nutrition 11 08-13-2004 06:54 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.