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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-21-2011, 11:10 PM   #11
Eric R Cohen
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

http://outsideonline.com/outside/bod...s-guide-7.html. wFS
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:29 AM   #12
Josh Paschedag
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

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There's a big difference between training methods for a player at Donovan's level and a player who hasn't got the basics down.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:11 AM   #13
adam adkins
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

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Originally Posted by Josh Paschedag View Post
This. Soccer players need soccer training. Not training on how to swing a kettlebell or do do double unders. If CF were best for soccer training, you'd see it being done in all the academies in Europe. It's not.

Improvements in strength and speed can be accomplished by, as others have said, olympic lifts, sprinting, etc.
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This depends on the age, skill level, and tactical awareness of the players. If he's just training some guys for a weekend tournament or a men's league, sure just get them in decent shape and let them run out there at game time and play.

However if we are talking about serious training to develop a competitive player, this is something totally different. I have no personal experience in designing a training program, but IMO a good place to start is to focus more on small sided work, technical drills, ball skills, tactical awareness, and in general anything involving a ball at the feet. Getting endless amounts of touches in is critical. Football is an insanely complex game at the higher levels and there are tons of other things to learn, but focusing on individual skills as a foundation is a good start. Layering in game experience should be secondary in training, that can be added in as your season approaches.

Just remember that the world's best players were groomed in academies, drilling (read: not running or doing other general fitness stuff) for hours 4-5 times per week, or in the streets playing every day.
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There's a big difference between training methods for a player at Donovan's level and a player who hasn't got the basics down.
I think you guys are missing the point. The core of the original question is; can a strength and conditioning program benefit a soccer athlete? The OP implicitly assumes, and correctly so, that it can and furthers the question by asking if CF style WODs is the proper way to improve strength and conditioning in a soccer athlete.

These assertions that "soccer players need to train like soccer players" seem silly to me. Sure, there is no question that every athlete needs sport specific training. But that doesn't change the fact that every athlete, regardless of sport, would benefit from improving strength and conditioning. And, as we all know, the best way to improve is in the weightroom. So the question, as the OP originally stated it, is are CF style workouts appropriate?

The answer is, as always, it depends. It depends mainly on how you define "crossfit style workouts". All athletes should do some strength work. Moswt athletes would benefit from some type of metabolic conditioning. So if that fits your definition of CF-style workouts, then the answer is yes. And for the record, I like the CFFB suggestion and would think a capable coach could make some adjustments to that programming to turn it into a great soccer S&C program.

One poster suggested that a soccer player needs not learn how to "swing a kettlebell." This is ridiculous. Swinging a kettlebell takes approximately 3 minutes to learn how to do and can improve and athletes strength and conditioning. The low skill nature of swinging a KB makes it almost a perfect tool for training athletes who have little time to learn a new skill.

Again, any athlete will benefit from dedicated strength and conditioning work. Sure, sport specific skill work should be the bulk of training, particularly in high skill sports like soccer or basketball. But nonetheless, a little time under the bar will render great results.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:50 AM   #14
Josh Paschedag
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

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Originally Posted by adam adkins View Post
I think you guys are missing the point. The core of the original question is; can a strength and conditioning program benefit a soccer athlete? The OP implicitly assumes, and correctly so, that it can and furthers the question by asking if CF style WODs is the proper way to improve strength and conditioning in a soccer athlete.

These assertions that "soccer players need to train like soccer players" seem silly to me. Sure, there is no question that every athlete needs sport specific training. But that doesn't change the fact that every athlete, regardless of sport, would benefit from improving strength and conditioning. And, as we all know, the best way to improve is in the weightroom. So the question, as the OP originally stated it, is are CF style workouts appropriate?

The answer is, as always, it depends. It depends mainly on how you define "crossfit style workouts". All athletes should do some strength work. Moswt athletes would benefit from some type of metabolic conditioning. So if that fits your definition of CF-style workouts, then the answer is yes. And for the record, I like the CFFB suggestion and would think a capable coach could make some adjustments to that programming to turn it into a great soccer S&C program.

One poster suggested that a soccer player needs not learn how to "swing a kettlebell." This is ridiculous. Swinging a kettlebell takes approximately 3 minutes to learn how to do and can improve and athletes strength and conditioning. The low skill nature of swinging a KB makes it almost a perfect tool for training athletes who have little time to learn a new skill.

Again, any athlete will benefit from dedicated strength and conditioning work. Sure, sport specific skill work should be the bulk of training, particularly in high skill sports like soccer or basketball. But nonetheless, a little time under the bar will render great results.
"A little time under the bar" is not 3 on 1 off Crossfit or 5x per week CF Football, and is exactly what I and others said to do for S&C. No one is going to argue that a stronger and more conditioned athlete will be better than another of equal skill.

But there is are more appropriate ways to approach it than Crossfit. Do your lifts and sprints (sounds a bit like CF Football there anyway, eh?) then do your skills and drill work which if programmed right is going to be plenty of conditioning anyway.

Do not waste your time conditioning yourself doing double unders and kettlebell swings when you could be conditioning yourself to the same degree with a ball at your foot. Which of these programs do you think will have more success on the field?
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:24 PM   #15
Chris Westerström
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

there was one wod that I remember that would probably be pretty good for a soccer team.
I think it was along the lines of:
3 rounds for a time of:
100m lunge
100m standing broad jump
100m sprint

It was a pretty brutal wod, if your guys are new to fitness, maybe go 50m lunge/50m sbj /100m sprint
but I liked it as it had strength, plyometrics and then sprint where you put it all together
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:03 AM   #16
Espen Fagervoll
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Red face Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

Thanx, that's what I waited for. The discussion regarding CF and soccer was sort of surprising. Yes, the team needs to play ball to be good at soccer. They are quite good and talented. But seems to lack some strength waist-up. Cardio seems very good!
Done some WO mixing pushups, squats, burpees and sprints and the seem to respond positively to it.

Lunges w/20 lbs. weights overhead, tabatas (no pullups possible, I've checked it out...)

DL and sprints? Good or bad idea?

The point is to get them stronger before season starts. Some players go to Globo-gym-kindof places, but you know how that works...notatall! (20-25 yrs old. We've all been there...)
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:21 AM   #17
Todd R Miller
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

There's no question that improving GPP will improve any athlete in any sport. Crossfit, since it's primary objective is raising GPP, is a viable choice for that goal.

However, a limiting factor for all athletes is time. The question becomes, how do I prioritize my activities to maximize my performance in my chosen sport?

In high skill sports such as soccer, hockey and tennis, the answer is clear: priority must be given to skill development. 10,000 hours is the often reported amount of time someone needs to spend on skills in order to reach elite status. If you aren't at an elite level, then you must make skill practice your number one priority. To become a better soccer player, you need to get better with the ball.

After skill development, you would want to prioritize areas of weakness or areas that will make you better at your sport. For a soccer player, explosive speed is typically the next priority. As we all know, this is best developed through heavy lifting, jumping, and sprinting. Sprints should be short - 500 m is too long and is training slowness. Soccer, hockey and tennis are games that require explosive 3-5 steps, repeated over and over. 40's and 5-10-5 shuttle sprints are ideal. To build endurance/stamina for soccer, do this by increasing the volume of sprints and shortening the rest interval. A Westside program, Crossfitfootball or Starting Strength are all applicable here.

If you still have time and energy, adding in GPP work will be beneficial. However, don't let it negatively impact your recovery, which is likely to happen during the season. For a competitive soccer player, GPP is best done in the transition phase after the season has ended.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:20 PM   #18
Jesse Gray
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Re: CF-wods for a soccerteam?

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There's no question that improving GPP will improve any athlete in any sport.
Not so much.
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