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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 01-20-2007, 01:15 PM   #1
Rafael Haroutunian
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Hi everybody!

Now that am totally immersed in Crossfit, the kettlebells come up in various posts, videos and CFJ quite often. Yet the WOD have no kettlebell-specific exercises.
I am a climber and work full time and as is the WOD plus at least 2 days in the climbing gym 2-4 hours and some specific training leave almost no extra time.
So I wonder if kettlebells offer something in terms of general conditioniong that WOD do not. How and why do you use it? Is it just to diversify? Would it then be beneficial to replace one of the day's WOD with a KB workout? Or should one replace barbell with KB, how often?
And, very importantly, there are all these claims that "a 3 min w-o replaces 1 hour run". Is this really true for long distance, or any running? What, one can just replace 10K with a KB workout? Or is this just a nice diversion for advanced (per Rippetoe) athletes? What is it going to give me that CF WOD does not? Perhaps this is just an activity, like Parkour...

Anyway, KBs are expensive, hipe high, time limited. I'd really appreciate if somebody sheds some light.

Rafael
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:38 PM   #2
David Aguasca
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although KBs are being hyped recently, ultimately...they are just a tool. sure, you could condition yourself JUST with KBs, but that's missing part of the picture.

KBs simply offer a different movement pattern to throw into the mix. i'm thinking specifically of the KB swing. it can be done witha DB, but i have a KB and swings are SO much better with the real thing, especially if you do them one-handed

i'm not sure what you mean by "all these claims." i assume you're talking about the crossfit methodology and it's effect on aerobic performance?

anyway:

Pros of KBs:
Probably most durable piece of equipment EVER.
Thicker handle than most DBs or barbells, provides a little bit of grip work (especially if you swing them by a towel!).
You can do fun stuff like figure eights, KB juggling, or bottoms-up work.


Cons:
Expensive.
Not Adjustable-If they are adjustable, i've heard they're not great for doing stuff like cleans and snatches.

anyway, that's my take on them...hope that helped.

p.s. fellow climber here, crossfit is a lot when added onto 3 days of climbing a week...be careful of overtraining your finger tendons...
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:12 PM   #3
Rafael Haroutunian
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Thank you, David.

I only used a KB twice, once 20 y ago in USSR, and once a few months ago doing Helen, so not an expert, but it seems that CF met-con is far more comprehensive than if you just use a KB. The claims are on KB sites.

Your post sounds like it's a good thing to do ever so often on a rainy weekend, like slack-lining. So then there is no pressure of getting and learning new tricks ASAP. I'll get it eventually and learn on rest days. I bet I'd look really goofy wielding a KB on a rest day in a camp, ha-ha!

Well, if anybody has any miracle stories about KBs, let us hear.

Fingers: I do HIT by Eric Hurst, and don't let ego in (hard-learned lesson) when at the gym. CF helped me come closer to my goal of onsighting 80% of all 11c-s, I'm in debt forever. But let me tell you, despite incredible gains in monkey-up ability, simple walking up a mountain has not improved much. But I am giving it more time, cragged for too long. Thanks again.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:37 AM   #4
Jason Steele
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High rep snatches and swings will replace running where needed. Jeff Martone has shown that kettlebell work alone can keep you well conditioned, so has Nate Morrison. Despite rumors, you can do cleans and snatches quite well with kb's, and make it a little more difficult with two. The expense is a problem, but kettlebell concepts has good deals and a 20% crossfit discount.
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Old 01-21-2007, 09:47 PM   #5
Tom Corrigan
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Rafael,
your conditioning level will be based on how smart, hard and consistent you train, not on the exact tool or set of tools you use.

Any exercise you can do with a DB, you can sub in a KB, and you can use two KBs to sub for barbell exercises (2-70# kbs for 135# BB or 2-35# kbs for a 75# BB).

HIT is for bodybuilders, not athletes. I did it for about 15 years after HS sports, and lost some agility, flexibility and explosiveness by doing Nautilus-inspired HIT programs. They are only good for cosmetics, not athletics.

Please go to www.crossfitlive.com and go to the archive section and download the Kettlebell show that I did with the host of CFLive, Dave Young. You can also go to the FAQ section at CF and look at Eugene Allen's Notes section and look at his notes on my KB seminar for CFers down at Rainier CF last year.

I live in Shoreline, WA and give KB seminars from time to time in the NW, so please send me an email if you would be interested in learning more. kbfiremantom AT yahoo.com

Take care and hope to hear from you,

Tom Corrigan
CF Level II Trainer and Russian KB certified (2003)
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:20 AM   #6
David Aguasca
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tom: i think rafael is talking about a different HIT here, lol.

H.I.T. (hypergravity isolation training) by Eric Hörst, the climber/writer, is a advanced system-board set of rungs for overhanging walls that uses progressive overload (using a weight belt) to increase upper body power and contact strength (fancy way of saying strong fingers).

check out the following link (ws,fs):
http://www.nicros.com/New%20Training...IT-part1.shtml

and let me tell you, bodybuilders doing H.I.T. would be quite a sight!!!

jason: i agree that you could definitely design a KB workout that would keep you very well conditioned. you could do the same thing with bodyweight conditioning. don't get me wrong, i love having a KB, it's extremely useful and i love messing around with it..but your brain is the most valuable conditioning tool ever.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:10 PM   #7
Tom Corrigan
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David,
my mistake. I'm a "victim" of the HIT of the 1980s ala Arthur Jones, Nautilus, et al... Didn't know there was a different training philosophy that used that acronym. My bad.

Rafael,

I'm very interested in KB info, so I'd like t hear about your experience with KBs 20 years ago, right in the middle of Glasnost... I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks,
Tom

p.s. have seen a lot of Russian KB videos, and some KB jugglers pick up and clean and press a 70# KB with their pinkie for reps! You can pick up and swing around KBs with individual fingers to increase their strength. KBs work much better than DBs or BBs, because of the way they hang off your fingers (i.e. center of gravity is 6-8 inches lower).
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Old 01-23-2007, 11:02 PM   #8
David Aguasca
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ha, Tom, no harm done (except maybe to you by HIT, lol)

that's pretty amazing, about the pinkies...but did you know that the most weight ever DL with one finger is 760 lbs, according to John Gill? dunno if it's true or not, but if it is...that's one strong finger...
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:32 PM   #9
Rafael Haroutunian
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Eh, this is to show just how litle time there is...

Wow, great info. Thank you guys!!!

I did order KBs after all, once the pressure to necessarily use them was off :-) They are in transit - will tell more when get them.

Tom, I really appreciate your offer to help! I will contact you as soon as I get my KBs. Thank you so much. I am in Factoria. And no, never juggled a KB, but do have some funny stories, will tell in person.

BTW, contact strength is different from grip strength. Can only be trained doing climbing specific exercises, alas...

Jason, thank you, I don't doubt others' experience, time will show what happens to me though. I am a bit impatient because of age (45), but am doing my best. Even so I am afraid to calculate (count of my actual WODs)/(possible 3on-1off) since last July...
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