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Old 04-01-2013, 10:21 AM   #21
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

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Originally Posted by Cain Deckhard View Post
A) Why are you eating McDonalds on a diet, the margin of error is far lower with unprocessed foods.
No, actually it is not. In fact unprocessed foods don't have to have their calorie count posted at all. That's the fact. That's the law.

Any food that is required by law to post calories is allowed a 20% margin of error. That's a HUGE margin of error - run the math.

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B) Five decades of contest lean (natural) bodybuilders going to 3-4% bodyfat by meticulously counting calories and you are stating this approach doesn't work and won't allow this guy to lose weight at 340lb??? Seriously, what in the world are you talking about?
That's the food journal effect, not the calorie counting effect. Food journals change eating habits. That's a fact. Even if the journal doesn't contain calorie counts, the mere act of logging food intake will change eating habits. Notice, for example, that Zone foodies don't count calories - they count 'blocks'.

Starting a food journal tends to result in weight loss. That weight loss is not improved when the journal contains calorie counts.

I've been an adult for over 30 years. For most of that time my weight has not fluctuated by more than a two or three of pounds per year. Yet I don't count calories. According to the calories in/calories out theory, a three pound delta is a margin of error of about 1% over the course of one year. That sort of result is not possible without some sort of magic winning-the-lottery blind luck year in, year out. I don't believe in magic. I believe the human metabolism operates on a homeostasis principle, not a calorie in/calorie out principle. People get fat because they've wrecked their metabolism's efforts to achieve homeostasis, not because they got their calorie counts wrong. Remember this: before we even had the ability to measure calories, fat people were the exception. Think about it.

Last edited by Lincoln Brigham : 04-01-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #22
jeramy park
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

How does one lose weight if calories dont matter?
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:37 AM   #23
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

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How does one lose weight if calories dont matter?
Calories matter; just because nine out of ten nutritionists violate the laws of thermodynamics on a daily basis doesn't mean you can too. What I'm saying is that counting calories doesn't work. You're only going to miscount most of them anyway (and thus violate the laws of thermodynamics.) Your metabolism doesn't count calories to stay thin, so why should you?

Quit eating the things that mess up your metabolism such as eating empty nutrients that only make you hungry again in an hour. Get your metabolism back to homeostasis. Stop eating crap like processed foods. Quit eating out so much and learn to cook real food. Don't eat just to be social or because you're depressed or bored. Don't be the whiner who says they're starving when really they're only a little bit hungry. The freaking North Koreans are starving, you're just being a whiny *****. Quit obsessing about food. Sure, keep a food journal so that you have to put pen to paper admitting that you had 11 beers last week and 4 cheat days. And seriously commit to getting more pullups.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:51 PM   #24
jeramy park
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

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Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham View Post
Calories matter; just because nine out of ten nutritionists violate the laws of thermodynamics on a daily basis doesn't mean you can too. What I'm saying is that counting calories doesn't work. You're only going to miscount most of them anyway (and thus violate the laws of thermodynamics.) Your metabolism doesn't count calories to stay thin, so why should you?

Quit eating the things that mess up your metabolism such as eating empty nutrients that only make you hungry again in an hour. Get your metabolism back to homeostasis. Stop eating crap like processed foods. Quit eating out so much and learn to cook real food. Don't eat just to be social or because you're depressed or bored. Don't be the whiner who says they're starving when really they're only a little bit hungry. The freaking North Koreans are starving, you're just being a whiny *****. Quit obsessing about food. Sure, keep a food journal so that you have to put pen to paper admitting that you had 11 beers last week and 4 cheat days. And seriously commit to getting more pullups.
Most people that are maintaining their weight do not need to count calories, its the people that are trying to lose or gain weight. I dont think you are giving sound advice saying that counting calories doesn't work because it does. Eating in a caloric deficit while hitting your macros will result in weight loss. I think we are moving a bit OT in regards to the OPs post but just because your weight hasnt fluctuated +/- 3lbs in the year doesnt mean anything. Have you tried to lose or gain weight in this year?

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/publ...e_wt/index.htm WFS

Last edited by jeramy park : 04-02-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #25
Paulo Santos
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

Counting calories definitely works and as inaccurate as it can be, there is a big margin for error in the + or - category that things even out. As long as you keep using the same way of counting calories, you just adjust by a few hundred calories until you get it right.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:58 PM   #26
Chris Mason
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

Counting calories is merely a way of quantifying intake. It doesn't matter if the value ascribed is absolutely correct so long as the value is consistent. In other words, if you consume 1 cup of peas and ascribe that the value of 117 calories then you have a reasonably consistent value for 1 cup of peas. If you then consume more or less peas you are consuming more or less calories.

The reason counting calories DOES work, and it ABSOLUTELY does if practiced properly, is that it allows you to control your daily intake.

If you randomly consume food and have no idea how many you are really consuming you certainly are not doing yourself any favors from a performance perspective if your given sport has body weight and body fat parameters.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:59 PM   #27
Cain Deckhard
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

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Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham View Post

That's the food journal effect, not the calorie counting effect. Food journals change eating habits. That's a fact. Even if the journal doesn't contain calorie counts, the mere act of logging food intake will change eating habits. Notice, for example, that Zone foodies don't count calories - they count 'blocks'.

Starting a food journal tends to result in weight loss. That weight loss is not improved when the journal contains calorie counts.

I've been an adult for over 30 years. For most of that time my weight has not fluctuated by more than a two or three of pounds per year. Yet I don't count calories. According to the calories in/calories out theory, a three pound delta is a margin of error of about 1% over the course of one year. That sort of result is not possible without some sort of magic winning-the-lottery blind luck year in, year out. I don't believe in magic. I believe the human metabolism operates on a homeostasis principle, not a calorie in/calorie out principle. People get fat because they've wrecked their metabolism's efforts to achieve homeostasis, not because they got their calorie counts wrong. Remember this: before we even had the ability to measure calories, fat people were the exception. Think about it.
Margin of error means both + and -. Unless there is a bias, the errors cancel out (it's called the central limit theorem) to the mean anyways. As for why you were able to maintain your bodyweight, it's called the setpoint, some people maintain the same fat bodyweight for years, but by your argument, it would be impossible to maintain ANY BODYWEIGHT consistently, since the swings at the end of the year are oh so large (except not if you actually paid attention in stat class). Additionally some individuals spotaneously compensate overfeeding through increased NEAT, as per this:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/res...ch-review.html (WFS)

Finally, if you are going to make claims about wrecked metabolisms, please provide a single scientific reference to show you are not just making this stuff up as you go along. I know for sure that being fat is not entirely due to processed vs. non-processed foods, as I've known plenty of people who've been on paleo for a while and they're still skinny fat.

Last edited by Cain Deckhard : 04-02-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #28
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

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Unless there is a bias, the errors cancel out
But there is bias and there always will be. In fact, if you look at the literature that bias is well documented. Food logs are notoriously inaccurate and they do not experience a cancelling of errors.

This paper puts the error as high as 63%
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/35/4/727.full.pdf
Link is work/family safe.
"The mean error in calories of 63.9% would mean that a day's intake of 2000 would be estimated at 3280 cal. Such a subject would err 1 lb. of calories every 3 days!"
"The total error ... was not related to the 3rd week weight loss ... nor to the weight loss at the end of the program."
"These results do not support the hypothesis that accurate predictions of weight loss are possible from subjects' self-reports of food intake."

You're going to have to work harder to convince anyone to start a journal full of numbers that are bound to be wrong.

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I think we are moving a bit OT in regards to the OPs post but just because your weight hasnt fluctuated +/- 3lbs in the year doesnt mean anything. Have you tried to lose or gain weight in this year?
Why would I? I'm perfectly satisfied with my current weight. In fact, sometime just before Christmas of this year will be my 20,000th consecutive day without ever being being fat. I'm the only one in my family that's never been fat, as well. Top that success, if you can.

You have COMPLETELY lost sight of the goal. The goal is not to gain or lose weight. (Unless you're one of those sick individuals who actually ENJOYS being on a weight loss diet.) The goal is to BE a different weight, to LIVE at that weight. You're making the classic error of confusing the journey with the destination.

(The exception is Oprah Winfrey, who made scads of money every time she lost that same 60 lbs.)
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:12 PM   #29
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Help me determine caloric intake.

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Originally Posted by Cain Deckhard View Post

Finally, if you are going to make claims about wrecked metabolisms, please provide a single scientific reference to show you are not just making this stuff up as you go along.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21965092

Link is work/family safe.

It takes years of dietary change to significantly alter the bacterial makeup of the gut. (See "Candida" and the impact of yeast blooms in the gut.)

That's one.
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