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Old 08-22-2011, 09:43 AM   #41
Lewis Dunn
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
You dont have the experience to back up the claims your talking about. You are taking other peoples word for it.
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Originally Posted by Lewis Dunn View Post
You should actually read "Toubes" sometime. You clearly haven't.
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Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
There is no need, others have already ripped him apart.
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Paleo will never be a cure all and to proclaim it as the end all to nutrition .... .
How many people do you know who actually make that claim?

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There is no way on earth that grains and gluten specifically is the root cause of disese and obesity.
How many people do you know who actually make that claim?

You need to chill the hate a bit, dude, and tone down the hyperbole! You sound AT LEAST as zealous as the people you are trying to criticize.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:30 AM   #42
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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What is your response to the proposed biochem mechanisms behind the paleo prescription regarding autoimmunity and metabolic derangement? (gut permeability, leptin, excessive fructose intake...among others)
That those arguments completely ignore a number of important factors:

* Many foods (heck, many substances) are harmful in large quantities but benign in smaller quantities. It's one thing to say you shouldn't eat three bunches of bananas a day, quite another to tell you to avoid bananas altogether.

* Many supposedly harmful substances are also present in foods that the paleo diet approves. Plenty of lectins in nuts, for instance.

* Modern humans cook most foods, and there is some evidence that the ability to use fire was an important evolutionary advantage because it gave humans access to a wider range of foods than non-fire using animals. In particular, proper preparation reduces many of the supposedly harmful substances in grains and legumes. Ignoring the beneficial effects of cooking on foods ignores this important aspect of human evolution.

* Similarly, there's quite a bit of evidence that humans co-evolved along with their food supply. The assumption that Grok's diet is also ideal for modern humans ignores the genetic history of modern humans. (This is probably my most significant disagreement with the paleo diet.)

* And conversely, what about all the things that Grok ate that modern humans don't? Where are modern humans supposed to obtain the nutrients that they no longer get from grubs and tree bark? Building a diet around the very limited selection of meat and vegetables available in a typical grocery store ignores the enormous diversity of actual paleolithic diets.

Katherine
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:32 AM   #43
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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Originally Posted by Lewis Dunn View Post
How many people do you know who actually make that claim?
Gary Taubes? Loren Cordain? The idea that the obesity epidemic can be blamed on grains seems to be pretty fundamental to the paleo worldview.

Katherine
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:36 AM   #44
Zach S
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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Originally Posted by Lewis Dunn View Post
How many people do you know who actually make that claim?

How many people do you know who actually make that claim?

You need to chill the hate a bit, dude, and tone down the hyperbole! You sound AT LEAST as zealous as the people you are trying to criticize.
Know personally? None. Read on the interwebs since i started studying nutrition? Hundreds. They may not all use these exact statements but you see it all the time.

I do need to chill because i really could care less how other people besides my immediate family eats. I shoulr probably spend less time on forums i. General.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:56 PM   #45
Todd R Bailey
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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And heres my point. You dont have the experience to back up the claims your talking about. You are taking other peoples word for it. I would like to hear from all these paleo advocats in a couple more years and see if they are still as entrenched in the paleo dogma as they were in the beginning. For the record i have eaten paleo for over 8 years and just recently went back to all things whole food which includes grains, legumes, dairy and sugar. The problem and reason i cant keep my mouth shut when i see threads like these is because people who worry about the foods being paleo are doing more harm then good by stressing out over diet. There is much more to health tyen eating with a certain set of foods. Paleo will never be a cure all and to proclaim it as the end all to nutrition because you have had good results for a year or less as most people do when they start up their own paleo/primal blog and start preaching and take the words of a select few gurus as if they were real experts with real degrees on the subject. Well it just rubs me the wrong way after years of reading, watching others and experimenting.

My last point is about grains and the mindset (like your own) that they are evil and the highest phase of health would be to eliminate them completely is asinine. They are a staple food for healthy and sick countries worldwide and have been for thousands of years. There is no way on earth that grains and gluten specifically is the root cause of disese and obesity. Its just not possible. For a select few it may be optimal to eliminate grains aswell as other garbage from their diet but for most its unnessesary at best and detrimental at worst.

Grains, legumes and dairy are three life saving foods for most of tye world.

The only claim I made here is that I, personally, feel better having removed grains from my diet. I’m not taking anyone’s word on that. With regard to the OP, he asked if plantains were okay on a Paleo diet. I’m not seeing the extreme health altering stress from this post.

I don’t think any food is either “good” or “evil,” and I don’t think wheat or gluten is the root of all disease. Based on what I've read, I think it plays a part (along with many other factors, e.g., seed oils, fructose, exercise, sleep, stress) in the development of many diseases. How important is each factor? Who knows? It’s probably different for each person based on genetics, epigenetics, weight, health, etc. Furthermore, individual goals are going to affect what foods are optimal. A diet and lifestyle that leads to elite athletic performance may not result in longterm health or longevity and vice versa.

If someone comes on the boards and tries to proclaim that their narrow version of Paleo is “the one true diet” that everyone must follow, I will be right with you in telling them to get lost. In this case, I just thought the anti-paleo rhetoric was excessive given the relatively benign nature of the thread.
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:27 PM   #46
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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Originally Posted by Todd R Bailey View Post
The only claim I made here is that I, personally, feel better having removed grains from my diet. I’m not taking anyone’s word on that. With regard to the OP, he asked if plantains were okay on a Paleo diet. I’m not seeing the extreme health altering stress from this post.
In isolation, you're right. I think people in the thread are responding to the cumulative impact of everything from this thread to the guy who worried that caramelized onions were sweet enough to mess up his insulin response. Plenty of paleo-philes seem to end up dangerously close to eating disorder territory.

Katherine
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:03 PM   #47
Lewis Dunn
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Gary Taubes? Loren Cordain? The idea that the obesity epidemic can be blamed on grains seems to be pretty fundamental to the paleo worldview.
Anyone who thinks that Gary Taubes blames the obesity epidemic on grains has not read him.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:45 PM   #48
Rob Samuels
 
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

People are just going overboard with worrying about being able to put a paleo label on each food item they ingest.

The other thing that bugs the heck out of me is so many people on this board seem to think that the new labels which have been put on things are somehow something new.

Paleo is just a repackaged diet which has been floating around in various degrees under many different names. Sure none fit specifically the paleo model but if you look at all the low carb diets they have all just taken a basic idea and tweeked a few things and called it their own.

I'm not saying the "Paleo" diet is bad in and of itself its the people who make it bad by letting the term consume their lives.

In this day and age you have bigger fish to fry in health and fitness than wether or not a food item is in fact "Paleo" its a good goal to improve your health but There are many components to health and often times people focus exclusively on only one of those components.

For so many of us wether or not we eat a slice of bread will not affect our health one bit because we are already in such poor health to begin with. This is why many people see so much improvement on a "Paleo" diet because they were eating so crappy and in such poor health to begin with. Its the same reason an out of shapoe person is going to see such rapid improvement following ANY type of exercise plan. Same goes for your diet. Follow ANY diet that reccomends eliminating garbage and you will see improvement if you are already closer to sick than healthy.

Just eat good unprocessed food as much as you can, get your fruits and veggies in and don't have a breakdown if you happen to think an occasional bun with your hamburger is ok.
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:42 PM   #49
Elizabeth Hall
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

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Damn, what's up with all of the Paleo!!! hate recently?
Well this is a CF forum, and when I went to the L1, I was basically told that eating Paleo was only mediocre and the only way to be truly elite was to follow the Zone.

With that being said, I don't follow the Zone, I'm way to busy to count my blueberries. So evidently I will never be truly elite
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:08 AM   #50
Arturo Garcia
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Re: Are plantains paleo?

What's the deal with being elite anyways?
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