Starving with Zone - Page 2

Jesse Woody · 10-04-2006, 02:58 PM

Then the .7 multiplier should be fine. Definitely phase out some of the oats and fruits for more low-glycemic-index veggies, and if that doesn't do the trick, bump the fat up one or twice again and see how that works.

Richard Boureston · 10-04-2006, 03:26 PM

So when you say bump up the fat once or twice again do you mean bump it up to 4x or start at 4x and bump it up to 5x?

I was eating, for a time, a lot of broccoli and veggies and that didn't seem to help.

Because I'm getting a bit confused as to where we are in this...can you break down exactly top to bottom what you think I should be doing:

i.e. 4 block meals, 2 block snacks with 4x fat

Thanks for your help.

Jesse Woody · 10-04-2006, 03:36 PM

Alright, here's what I'm thinking; three 4-block meals, and two 2-block snacks composed of slightly fattier proteins (whole eggs for breakfast, slightly fattier cuts of meat..especially if you can get grass fed), mixed veggies and 4-5x fat. Composing your fat blocks from nuts and seeds will give you a bit more bulk, and then take up the difference with olive oil and other liquid fat sources. Broccolli, Cauliflower, Spinach, Brussel Sprouts...these will all be your friends here, as they are more fiberous and will fill you up more, especially with the added fat.

Richard Boureston · 10-04-2006, 03:40 PM

Cool. Thanks everyone. I'll give it a run for a three days and let you guys know how it goes.

Jeff Dale · 10-04-2006, 06:24 PM

I had a question about his fat intake. I thought 1 block=3 almonds? Wouldn't 30 almonds at one meal be like x5 fat intake?

Jesse Woody · 10-05-2006, 02:33 AM

It would be 10 blocks, so if you were eating a 2-block meal it would be 5x...With a 4 or 5-block meal it would only be double the fat.

Brian Reckdenwald · 10-05-2006, 04:28 AM

I have been feeling continuously hungry as of late too. I attribute it to not having enough time to consume voluminous carbs. I end up getting 80-90% of my carb blocks a day from fruit just because it is more dense and less time consuming. I'll have a sweet potato and some greens here and there but not often enough.

Bottom line: if you are hungry, eat more food - just options that are less dense. Try eating 8 cups of steamed broccoli and tell me you are still hungry!

Mark Dowst · 10-05-2006, 07:47 AM

I thought you were supposed to try increasing the activity factor to 1.0 before multiplying fat. If you need more calories after you reach an activity factor of 1.0, you add it in fat.

I think the reasoning is you get benefits from having a protein intake up to 1.0 gram per lean pound of bodymass, and the respective amount of carbohydrate. Multiplying fat is used to solve the flaw of the zone for people already at thier bodyweight target or for people with caloric needs beyond the 1.0 activity factor (athletes & crazy metabolisms).

Vegetables and other low caloric high fiber foods could help you feel full. Get some Omega 3 eggs for breakfast, good way to get some healthy fat. Also, instead of eating a bunch of small meals throughout the day, try eating only 3 or less. I have a feeling your keeping your metabolism stoked at full force all day, skipping breakfast a few times will keep your body from getting spoiled.

In other words if you can't solve your hunger with different food choices, play around with your metabolism until you do with meal times and number of meals per day.

Jeff Dale · 10-05-2006, 02:50 PM

Thanks Jesse, I finally understand the simple math behind the added fat now. Thanks for your time.

(Message edited by jeff_d on October 05, 2006)

Jesse Woody · 10-05-2006, 03:30 PM

Mark, what is usually done around here is this: if you are currently at .7 for your activity, you start at base Zone levels while doing the WOD until you start to drop below 10% towards 5% BF. At that point you begin to multiply the fat blocks to find the appropriate amount of calories to sustain functional mass.

There is truth to the point that you will reach a level of enhanced performance/health/body-comp. if you can tweak your activity to achieve the 1.0 multiplier, but for many that isn't practical. For all intents and purposes, you would assume 1.0 if you did the WOD + long warm-up + skill work on top of multiple hours of training for sports in a day. While this is optimum for elite athletes, it's hardly practical for anybody with a 9-5 job!

The problem with the base Zone levels is that it's VERY lean in calories (which is a good thing for losing weight or for sedentary people). In order to keep up the hormonal optimization, you have to find something to bolster calories that is hormonally neutral. That's where monounsaturated fat comes in.

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10-04-2006, 02:58 PM	#11
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	Then the .7 multiplier should be fine. Definitely phase out some of the oats and fruits for more low-glycemic-index veggies, and if that doesn't do the trick, bump the fat up one or twice again and see how that works.

10-04-2006, 03:26 PM	#12
Richard Boureston Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 56	So when you say bump up the fat once or twice again do you mean bump it up to 4x or start at 4x and bump it up to 5x? I was eating, for a time, a lot of broccoli and veggies and that didn't seem to help. Because I'm getting a bit confused as to where we are in this...can you break down exactly top to bottom what you think I should be doing: i.e. 4 block meals, 2 block snacks with 4x fat Thanks for your help.

10-04-2006, 03:36 PM	#13
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	Alright, here's what I'm thinking; three 4-block meals, and two 2-block snacks composed of slightly fattier proteins (whole eggs for breakfast, slightly fattier cuts of meat..especially if you can get grass fed), mixed veggies and 4-5x fat. Composing your fat blocks from nuts and seeds will give you a bit more bulk, and then take up the difference with olive oil and other liquid fat sources. Broccolli, Cauliflower, Spinach, Brussel Sprouts...these will all be your friends here, as they are more fiberous and will fill you up more, especially with the added fat.

10-04-2006, 03:40 PM	#14
Richard Boureston Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 56	Cool. Thanks everyone. I'll give it a run for a three days and let you guys know how it goes.

10-04-2006, 06:24 PM	#15
Jeff Dale Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 308	I had a question about his fat intake. I thought 1 block=3 almonds? Wouldn't 30 almonds at one meal be like x5 fat intake?

10-05-2006, 02:33 AM	#16
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	It would be 10 blocks, so if you were eating a 2-block meal it would be 5x...With a 4 or 5-block meal it would only be double the fat.

10-05-2006, 04:28 AM	#17
Brian Reckdenwald Member Profile: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: hoboken nj Posts: 517	I have been feeling continuously hungry as of late too. I attribute it to not having enough time to consume voluminous carbs. I end up getting 80-90% of my carb blocks a day from fruit just because it is more dense and less time consuming. I'll have a sweet potato and some greens here and there but not often enough. Bottom line: if you are hungry, eat more food - just options that are less dense. Try eating 8 cups of steamed broccoli and tell me you are still hungry!

10-05-2006, 07:47 AM	#18
Mark Dowst Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ormond Beach/Gainesville FL Posts: 87	I thought you were supposed to try increasing the activity factor to 1.0 before multiplying fat. If you need more calories after you reach an activity factor of 1.0, you add it in fat. I think the reasoning is you get benefits from having a protein intake up to 1.0 gram per lean pound of bodymass, and the respective amount of carbohydrate. Multiplying fat is used to solve the flaw of the zone for people already at thier bodyweight target or for people with caloric needs beyond the 1.0 activity factor (athletes & crazy metabolisms). Vegetables and other low caloric high fiber foods could help you feel full. Get some Omega 3 eggs for breakfast, good way to get some healthy fat. Also, instead of eating a bunch of small meals throughout the day, try eating only 3 or less. I have a feeling your keeping your metabolism stoked at full force all day, skipping breakfast a few times will keep your body from getting spoiled. In other words if you can't solve your hunger with different food choices, play around with your metabolism until you do with meal times and number of meals per day.

10-05-2006, 02:50 PM	#19
Jeff Dale Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 308	Thanks Jesse, I finally understand the simple math behind the added fat now. Thanks for your time. (Message edited by jeff_d on October 05, 2006)

10-05-2006, 03:30 PM	#20
Jesse Woody Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Orange Virginia Posts: 915	Mark, what is usually done around here is this: if you are currently at .7 for your activity, you start at base Zone levels while doing the WOD until you start to drop below 10% towards 5% BF. At that point you begin to multiply the fat blocks to find the appropriate amount of calories to sustain functional mass. There is truth to the point that you will reach a level of enhanced performance/health/body-comp. if you can tweak your activity to achieve the 1.0 multiplier, but for many that isn't practical. For all intents and purposes, you would assume 1.0 if you did the WOD + long warm-up + skill work on top of multiple hours of training for sports in a day. While this is optimum for elite athletes, it's hardly practical for anybody with a 9-5 job! The problem with the base Zone levels is that it's VERY lean in calories (which is a good thing for losing weight or for sedentary people). In order to keep up the hormonal optimization, you have to find something to bolster calories that is hormonally neutral. That's where monounsaturated fat comes in.