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Old 02-28-2011, 10:47 AM   #1
Hew Fung
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First four wheel DL and messed up squat

I hit 405 on my DL for the first time this weekend and it feels great. I haven't attempted a 1 RM for about six months but I've been doing 5/3/1 since then and I'm definitely making progress. I'd appreciate any feedback. The form is admittedly not perfect, but it seems reasonable to me for a 1RM.

DL 1x405 (WFS)

Things haven't been so great on the squat front. My recent week-1 5/3/1 workout called for 1+x285, and I only did one ugly rep. My previous PR was a shaky 290, unbelted. My biggest problem with squat is that I just can't seem to keep my knees in. My hips also tend to shoot up first, leading to some good morning type movement. I realize that this lift is a mess but I'd appreciate your thoughts. The looseness of my hoodie compared to the tightness of my belt is comically out of proportion.

BS 1x285 (WFS)
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:16 PM   #2
Jay Rhodes
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

Just of quick note....keep the CHEST UP on the squat. You completely caved in during the middle of the squat. Keep up nice and tall and that weight will go up smooth.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:24 PM   #3
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

I use mental queues and tricks to remember certain things. Ex. I get ready to go down for a heavy squat (for me at least) and I always say in my head before I go down, "neutral spine, tight core, knees out" When I do lighter stuff and am doing the actvity quickly I tend to forget to say this. Every time I tweak my knees or anything, I am doing it with sub-maximal weight. You need something to help keep that spine neutral. The belt is meant to help, not replace your core ridgidity. Good job, 405lb is my goal. I just hit 365.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:57 PM   #4
Robert Fabsik
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

On the squat I have a couple of questions and comments:
1.) What type of squat are you aiming for? Olympic vs. power/athletic vs. Powerlifting? Looking at your setup it seems Olympic (just making sure).

2.) Your grip looks a little narrow, have you tried wider which might let the bar ride just a little lower? This might prevent you from tipping forward and raising the hips faster than the head/shoulder.

3.) Keep those knees out all the time and butt back more.

Out of curiosity how much do you weigh? You look lean in the videos, so congrats on the deadlift.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:50 AM   #5
David Hare
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

Your deadlift setup looks abnormal, so I'm just pointing this out to make sure you're aware.

Your stance is very wide and as such, your back doesn't get nearly as close to parallel as a traditional deadlift where the feet are closer to shoulder width apart.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:02 AM   #6
Robert Fabsik
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hare View Post
Your deadlift setup looks abnormal, so I'm just pointing this out to make sure you're aware.

Your stance is very wide and as such, your back doesn't get nearly as close to parallel as a traditional deadlift where the feet are closer to shoulder width apart.
I thought he was sumo deadlifting?
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #7
Hew Fung
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

Robert is correct, I'm doing sumo deads, or at least I thought I was. Is that not the proper setup to do sumos?

I suppose my squat is somewhere between olympic and powerlifting though it's intended to be more of a powerlifting style. That said, the comment about my grip being too narrow probably puts the bar a bit higher than it needs to be and the narrowness of my stance is probably closer than a powerlifting squat as well. I just find that when the weight starts to get heavy, I tend to adopt a narrower stance as I feel weak with my legs way out. Odd since sumo dead is easier for me than regular stance.

Edit:
Quote:
Out of curiosity how much do you weigh?
I at 5'11", 170#, I am pretty lean, but the loose hoody and tight belt probably overemphasize it.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:15 AM   #8
Robert Fabsik
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

You looked pretty Sumo to me.

You don't have to go cage wide or Sumo wide with your feet for your squat but try a foot print or two wider, get the bar a little lower on your back and then you really need to sit back and push your knees outs.

If you let your knees come in you lose all the hip/hamstring tension that a powerlifting style squat is to take advantage of.

With a powerlifting/low bar squat you can have you up body leaned forward more as long as your spine remains neutral and chest doesn't collapse, but you then really need to sit back to counterbalance the lean. And keep those knees out.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:20 PM   #9
Hew Fung
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

Through my research, I've understood that a super-wide squat stance benefits a powerlifter using equipment, especially multi-ply suits, and that there isn't nearly as much of an advantage for a raw lifter. I found one quote by Pendlay where he says (paraphrasing) that a narrower stance olympic style squat is similar to a raw powerlifting squat. For someone pursuing GPP or general athletic ability with no intention of competing in power lifting, it seems that a hybrid, somewhat wide style or even a narrow olympic style would make the most sense. Does that seems about right?
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:27 PM   #10
Aidan Macdonald
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Re: First four wheel DL and messed up squat

Squat

Feet looked a little wide and on the immediate drive up, your knees collapse inward. Drive knees out.

Your hips drove up faster than your shoulders. When I do this, my weight shifts towards my toes. Pick up the toes (a little, be safe on maximal), and chest up A LOT more. You were almost looking straight down.

On the way down on your squat, your knees collapsed in a bit. This may have led to the further collapse on the way up. Try a closer stance. When I go wide stance, it forces my knees inward.

Good job overall, I wouldn't worry to much about the form. At maximal, its better to get up with decent form than fall down with perfect
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