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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 07-13-2009, 10:13 AM   #41
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Andrew H. Meador View Post
If you are grinding through unscaled WODs or are scaling for months on end, then it's probably because you lack some of the skills I've mentioned, like a muscle-up or a heavy clean & jerk.
In a thread on muscle-ups, someone posted a progression for learning them, but warned that it's pointless to start the progression until you have strong pullups and dips. Until you can shoulder press your bodyweight, there's not much that will help your HSPUs.

So I'm not clear on exactly who the audience for your proposed training program would be. It sounds like it is people who know what Crossfit is, want to become firebreathers as quickly as possible, and yet are willing to essentially abandon metcon for as long as it takes to get strong enough to do the gymnastic and oly movements as Rxed. I don't see that as a huge group. People who want to focus on gymnastics or lifting are already doing those things.

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Old 07-13-2009, 11:32 AM   #42
Lukas Boomgaert
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Until you can shoulder press your bodyweight, there's not much that will help your HSPUs.
I seem to remember a CFJ article on pushups in which coach Glassman states that being able to do 20 freestanding HSPUs would give someone a military press of about 150% BW. But the reverse is not necessarily true because of the added element of balance could be missing.
Wouldn't that mean that it would be preferable to chase the HSPU, instead of first getting a high military press and then going after the HSPU?

Anyway, unless someone actually makes a program to progress to the skills in the original post and tries it out this matter won't get resolved? But it seems like a nice (not saying better, although I like the gymnastics emphasis) alternative to doing SS before getting to crossfit as rx'd.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:13 PM   #43
Ryan Webernick
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

My take on all of this is that it would be more beneficial to be strong in the oly-lifts and gymnastics moves. To be strong in the oly lifts, you have to be strong in the slow lifts first. I think you are better off building your base strength through SS, then treating oly-lifts as skill work. There is a good CFJ article called something like "Supplemental Olympic lifting for Crossfitters."
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:28 PM   #44
Jesse Kodadek
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Until you can shoulder press your bodyweight, there's not much that will help your HSPUs.
Not really. I can do HSPUs but am quite a ways from bodyweight shoulder press. I don't even think I can do a bodyweight push press....but I don't really work on it because I can easily push jerk significantly more than bodyweight.

And Ryan...I think it depends what slow lifts you are talking about. I am around 175 and am about 8kg from a bodyweight snatch. I o-lift with guys who are much bigger and have snatches that far exceed their bodyweight but somehow I can deadlift more than them (I pulled 410 last week and could probably have done a little more) and front squat very similar weights. It's complicated and the correlations are far from absolute.

As for the original post...I think one thing many people fail to even consider is scaling reps down in a WOD but keeping weights high enough to work on strength while also getting metcon. If the WOD calls for 21-15-9 at an weight that is unmanageable for you at any level of intensity for 45 reps, maybe a 12-9-6 is workable and you can go RX'd in weight (or hell, even heavier than RX'd if you have a strength bias).

Last edited by Jesse Kodadek : 07-13-2009 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:09 PM   #45
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Jesse Kodadek View Post
Not really. I can do HSPUs but am quite a ways from bodyweight shoulder press.
Is that HSPU freestanding, on parallettes, full depth? Or a headstand push-up against the wall? Big difference.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:40 PM   #46
Jesse Kodadek
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

Right. Headstand against the wall. I realized that after I posted and my editing window expired (congratulations to this site for being the only place I have ever seen an edit time window).
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:26 PM   #47
Jason R O'Dell
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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If you're stronger, everything else goes better, gymnastics and olylifting included, and if you're honest with your scaling, only doing it when absolutely necessary to COMPLETE a WOD, not to achieve 'middle of the pack' times ( a reason why i pay scant attention to others' training logs; they're them- i'm me) then the benefits come.

Admittedly, olympic lifts and gymnastics are my weak link, but they'd be weaker still if i weren't strong enough to do a muscle up or clean more than an empty bar in the first place
This rings true with me. I think I scale too easy sometimes so that I can have a better time. I'm becoming too conscious of the stopwatch.
Yeah I do scale so that I can finish the WoD and finish it with intensity and not take all day to do it.
I'm not in shape enough to really finish any WoDs unless they're really easy in the 4-6 minute range. My times usually average anywhere from 8-20 minutes depending on the WoD.
But, maybe I scale too much so I end up with 18 minutes instead of 22 or something like that.
I'm almost wanting to completely do away with the stopwatch for a month just to see how much less I may scale when I'm not trying to get a good time.
I mean I'm doing CF to get in shape for rugby and whatever else, not to compete at the Games and have great times.
Maybe timing it and just going balls to the wall as hard as I can and not paying attention to the time is better for some of the people you described above and people like me?

Just a thought...a long winded one at that.
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:08 PM   #48
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Jesse Kodadek View Post
Right. Headstand against the wall
I think that I'd be further along in metcon if at first I'd focused on getting that full ROM freestanding HSPU instead of just settling with a heSPU. Coming in with higher strength in that domain one would be able to throw around greater weight during metcons, therein increasing their capacity to produce power at a higher strength threshold while similarly pushing their endurance and stamina.
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