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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 07-11-2009, 09:14 PM   #21
Justin Shipley
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

If you're stronger, everything else goes better, gymnastics and olylifting included, and if you're honest with your scaling, only doing it when absolutely necessary to COMPLETE a WOD, not to achieve 'middle of the pack' times ( a reason why i pay scant attention to others' training logs; they're them- i'm me) then the benefits come.

Admittedly, olympic lifts and gymnastics are my weak link, but they'd be weaker still if i weren't strong enough to do a muscle up or clean more than an empty bar in the first place
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Old 07-11-2009, 10:02 PM   #22
Ryan Lynch
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

See this thread on scaling intensity

http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...tive+intensity (WFS)

It has link to the Performance Menu Relative Intensity article (pre pub). I think that article answers the questions. Scale for maximal power output and intensity.


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Old 07-12-2009, 02:35 AM   #23
Randy Hill
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Michael Bruce Mailman View Post
the fact that doing main page WODS alone, as a newbie, isn't the fastest way to gain all round proficiency.
so, in your opinion, basic barbell training is? Like SS?
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Old 07-12-2009, 02:43 AM   #24
Randy Hill
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Michael Bruce Mailman View Post
the fact that doing main page WODS alone, as a newbie, isn't the fastest way to gain all round proficiency.
so, in your opinion, basic barbell training is? Like SS?
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:49 AM   #25
Michael Bruce Mailman
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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so, in your opinion, basic barbell training is? Like SS?
Barbells, dumbells, kettlebells, sandbags, whatever.

The tool doesn't matter so much.

If you take newbie A and newbie B, both of whom have exactly the same lifestyle, genetics, training intensity, etc, and newbie A does a strength based programme for say, 6 months, with a switch to mainpage WODS for the last 3 months, and newbie B does mainpage WODS for 9 months, newbie A will come out a better rounded, more capable athlete.

You obviously disagree?
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:27 AM   #26
Marcus Allen
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Michael Bruce Mailman View Post
Barbells, dumbells, kettlebells, sandbags, whatever.

The tool doesn't matter so much.

If you take newbie A and newbie B, both of whom have exactly the same lifestyle, genetics, training intensity, etc, and newbie A does a strength based programme for say, 6 months, with a switch to mainpage WODS for the last 3 months, and newbie B does mainpage WODS for 9 months, newbie A will come out a better rounded, more capable athlete.

You obviously disagree?
I absolutely disagree. A program like SS, with whatever tools you use, will leave you completely unprepared for anything that requires working at an elevated HR for any duration of time.

HQ has stated this too many times to count. Getting better at one or two aspects of the 10 components, will not make you better across the board.

While adding extra strength OR extra endurance work can push an athlete over the top depending on their weakness, this tends not to happen with untrained athletes.

This is why programs like CFE and CFSB are more for people who already have a moderate CF base and not so much for noobs.
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:07 PM   #27
Justin Shipley
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

Weaker untrained athlete=mega scaling+mucho coaching=poor metabolic kick from WOD

Stronger untrained athlete=less dramatic scaling+equally mucho coaching=better metabolic kick from WOD

If you're throwing more weight around, with equally good form, than someone weaker but with equal cardiorespiratory fitness you are getting more bang for your buck
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:32 PM   #28
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

I say you would need to find out how to increase strength and met con at the same time.

It's crossfit, not a strength program. People come here for the benefits the program offers.

I'd say scale crossfit and over time increase the weight in the scaled workouts until your strength stalls. If your strength is not sufficient by then. You should do ME Black Box or CFSB depending on how good of condition the person is in. If their body can't handle the work of those programs yet it would be a waste of time.


I don't understand why people start off with starting strength. I got awesome increases from strength just doing crossfit. Then again maybe there are differences between me and others that do this program.

Doing crossfit does increase strength.
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Old 07-12-2009, 07:47 PM   #29
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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Originally Posted by Marcus Allen View Post
I absolutely disagree. A program like SS, with whatever tools you use, will leave you completely unprepared for anything that requires working at an elevated HR for any duration of time.
I'm not advocating SS. I'm advocating seeking a minimum standard of proficiency in the olympic lifts and gymnastics. There are tons of olympic lifters and gymnasts who come into CF and from day one smoke certain metcons. Olympic lifters - Grace, Isabel, Randy, etc. Gymnasts - Cindy, Mary, Barbara, Angie, etc. Those efforts require working at an elevated heart rate for a certain duration of time. Which for Grace, Isabel, Randy, and Angie is less than the rest of us. I guarantee that if we required Josh Everett or Jeff Leonard to continue snatching 135 lbs. for another 200 reps, they could do it in far less time than a WOD-follower. That strength puts them at a higher baseline, below which they're not working hard and therefore not going into anaerobic debt, and above which they are still recovering from each rep much faster than a weaker person would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Allen View Post
HQ has stated this too many times to count. Getting better at one or two aspects of the 10 components, will not make you better across the board.
But those athletes are getting a dose of 8 or 9, even 10 of those components. And they are getting certain of those in a much more potent way than just gritting through the scaled WOD. Accuracy, balance, agility, coordination, speed, power (you're going to say that this power doesn't transfer to efforts of a few minutes or longer, but it mostly certainly does - look at a gymnast who comes in and does 30 rounds of Cindy), flexibility, strength, stamina (possibly minimal, but again, the utilization of energy over many minutes in a bodyweight triplet like Cindy is indicative of stamina), and cardiovascular/respiratory endurance (minimal, but this does not take as long to acquire as most of the other components, especially strength). No marathon runner comes into CF and dominates within the first few months. Gymnasts and olympic lifters do. Look at this year's Games winners, Mikko Salo and Tanya Wagner - they are strong athletes in the domains of basic gymnastic movements and the olympic lifts. Look down the top 10 - similar findings. That strength transfers very well to simpler (but heavier) movements like the powerlifts. It's all about functionality - what transfers well to other activities.

One last point - why did Annie Thorisdottir (among several others) DNF at the Games today? She couldn't, for all of her grit and determination, finish the muscle-ups. She simply was not strong enough in that movement. There is an answer to that problem, and the answer isn't "more metcon".
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Last edited by Andrew H. Meador : 07-12-2009 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 07-12-2009, 07:49 PM   #30
Randy Hill
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Re: An acceptable level of strength prior to beginning metcons

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You obviously disagree?
I most definitely do NOT disagree! That's why I am doing SS right now.
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