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Old 03-24-2008, 01:37 PM   #11
Emily Mattes
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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They give kids a stinkin' chicken pox vaccine nowadays. Give me a break. None of these diseases are life threatening, and if they are, their incidence rate is so incredibly low that the only cases of them known to exist lately have been due to the vaccine themself (aka not in "non-vaccinated children")
Matt, you are absolutely wrong.

First of all, chicken pox may be pretty benign in children, but it can be very deadly in adults.

Second of all, as to your other assertion you need to look no further than the rates of vaccine-available diseases in Third World countries. The more aggressive the vaccination program, the less the incidence of disease. Less vaccinations = more diseases. How do you think smallpox got eradicated, and polio on the way to eradication? I will give you a hint: It is not from people not getting vaccinated.

You want a real world example of the effects of vaccinations, compare rates of polio in Nigeria to that of other third-world countries. Nigeria halted its polio vaccination program in 2004. Guess which country is facing a resurgence in polio?

Here is the question every parent should ask themselves:
Would you rather expose your child to the:
A) Unproven, likely unreal, and minimal at worst risk of getting vaccinated
OR
B) Demonstrated and real risk of contracting and dying from meningitis, hepatitis, or any of the other numerous diseases for which children get vaccinated?

All the organic, locally-grown food and mini-kettleballs in the world aren't going to save your toddler from polio or meningitis if they get it. I know my choice.

ADDENDUM:
This is also not the place to have an argument about abortion or the usage of fetal cell tissue for medical purposes. If you would prefer the world be at its pre-vaccine levels of disease for polio and smallpox, you are free to think that world is a better place. Similarly, others are free to enjoy not having to worry about their children dying from those diseases.

Re: Gardasil, I just hope any daughters you have or will have don't get cervical cancer. For their sakes, if not for your own.

Last edited by Emily Mattes : 03-24-2008 at 01:55 PM.
 
Old 03-24-2008, 01:48 PM   #12
Matt DeMinico
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
Matt, you are absolutely wrong.

First of all, chicken pox may be pretty benign in children, but it can be very deadly in adults.
There's a lot of evidence that points to two things:
1) The ineffectiveness of vaccines to prevent the diseases they're meant to treat, and in fact the lack of "wild" strains of the disease is most often the cause of people not becoming infected with that disease.
2) The tendency of a vaccine to prevent a person's immune system from adequately responding to a real threat, namely when they're exposed to the real virus in the course of their life, causing them to be more prone to becoming infected.

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
Second of all, as to your other assertion you need to look no further than the rates of vaccine-available diseases in Third World countries. The more aggressive the vaccination program, the less the incidence of disease. Less vaccinations = more diseases. How do you think smallpox got eradicated, and polio on the way to eradication? I will give you a hint: It is not from people not getting vaccinated.
There's just a *few* more variables than the incidence of vaccination in those countries. Things like sanitation within houses and villages, eating habits, nutrient availability, availability of clean water, etc. Hence the reason why both smallpox and polio were on the decline BEFORE the invention of their respective vaccines, and in some countries when *mandatory* vaccination was implemented, the incidence of those diseases went up drastically for a period, before they were finally eradicated (or on their way to eradication) likely due to better living conditions, not the vaccines.
 
Old 03-24-2008, 02:02 PM   #13
Derek Maffett
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Re: Children's vaccinations

I will start by saying that I am against vaccines, particularly to young children whose immune systems are still building. There have been recorded events (mentioned above) of people being hurt from vaccines and in fact, when the polio vaccine was introduced, polio rates increased. Do vaccines have some use? Yes, if I were to go to a third world country or some such, I would probably want to risk a few vaccines just because of the nastier and more prevalent diseases over there. But not here.

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Originally Posted by Karin Kellerman View Post
Either way, you children may NOT attend school without their vaccinations and so if you decide to not give vaccinations as a baby you are going to have to do it at school time!
Actually, you are missing a very important aspect of disease control - public schools are breeding grounds for any disease a child walks in with (even with the faulty assumption that sick kids wouldn't go to school, you don't have to feel ill to be carrying a disease). I assure you, and I have personal and observational experience here, that home schooling is actually better than public school for education purposes, it does not make anti-social kids or kids who can't handle themselves in public, and it is safe. No diseases, no bullies. All it requires is a good curriculum and a single parent to devote a little time to watching the kids and you're done. You don't even have to be a professional teacher. I was home schooled through a correspondence school in Kentucky. Low cost and teachers there you can call if you're having trouble.

Home schooling is the best thing you can do for your child's health and with all it's other pros, I think you would owe it to expend a little effort and make it happen.
 
Old 03-24-2008, 02:14 PM   #14
Matt DeMinico
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Derek, couldn't agree more, you basically summed up my points: They have a place, but not like they're being used today. And on the homeschooling, spot-on.

Also, funny, I JUST got this in my eMail, a health update, exactly what I've been saying about vaccines:

‘Miracle’ AIDS Vaccines Increase Infection

A massive blow was dealt to AIDS research last week when two “miracle” vaccines that were supposed to prevent AIDS failed spectacularly. Not only did the vaccines not work, they actually increased chances of getting the deadly virus.

In spite of the $500 million the United States government pours into AIDS research each year, advancements have been slow in coming, and failure of the two most promising trials may leave researchers starting from the beginning.

One vaccine was supposed to reduce infections, as well as to make the virus less deadly and contagious in those who already had it. Instead, the vaccine made people more susceptible to contracting the virus.

Both vaccines indicated that people who were vaccinated with the new vaccine were twice as likely to become infected with the AIDS virus.

“This is on the same level of catastrophe as the Challenger disaster that destroyed a NASA space shuttle,” said Robert Gallo, co-discoverer of the HIV virus.

Experts fear the future of AIDS research is bleak. “None of the products currently in the pipeline has any reasonable chance of being effective in field trials,” said Ronald Desrosiers, a molecular geneticist at Harvard University.

“We simply do not know at the present time how to design a vaccine that will be effective against HIV.”
 
Old 03-24-2008, 02:50 PM   #15
Derek Maffett
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Emily, did the black plague die because of a vaccine? And in regards to gardasil, you know perfectly well what the best way to avoid HPV is. Girls who don't engage in that type of behavior are quite safe. That vaccine makes about as much sense as putting on a bulletproof vest and then shooting yourself.
 
Old 03-24-2008, 03:24 PM   #16
Brandon Oto
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Re: Children's vaccinations

There's a lot of evidence I'll allude to but not provide that indicates that Bigfoot walks among us. *


* My Rear End, 2008
 
Old 03-24-2008, 03:29 PM   #17
Derek Maffett
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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Originally Posted by Brandon Oto View Post
There's a lot of evidence I'll allude to but not provide that indicates that Bigfoot walks among us. *


* My Rear End, 2008
Who exactly are you referring to?
 
Old 03-24-2008, 03:38 PM   #18
Brandon Oto
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Re: Children's vaccinations

Most of the posts in this thread. "He said, she said" is not a productive way to conduct an argument about data.
 
Old 03-24-2008, 03:40 PM   #19
Gerhard Lavin
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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Originally Posted by Matt DeMinico View Post
There's a lot of evidence ....
Matt can you point me to some of this evidence, preferably from a reliable source for example a peer reviewed journal. As a father of a 5 month old girl I would be very interested in reading it.
 
Old 03-24-2008, 04:51 PM   #20
Susie Rosenberg
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Re: Children's vaccinations

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I was wondering what other parents felt about the vaccinations that are given to babies. My mom was always against it and we never got shots as kids. My wife's parents are both doctors and they are the opposite. Both of our kids have had the first couple rounds of shots but I am really uneasy about it. I've read a lot on the subject and it a lot of it is really concerning, especially the link to autism. I know that in the end it is my wife and my choice but I thought that if I was to get opinions it would be from the people whose opinion I value the most, and that is the CrossFit community. Thanks in advance.

Ryan
There is no link between autism and vaccinations. I am a former nurse, a physician, and the mother of an autistic child, and believe me, I researched this one.

There is an interesting moderate association between autism and assisted reproductive technology.

Susie
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