CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2007, 07:33 AM   #1
Brian Cornwell
Member Brian Cornwell is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cincinnati  Ohio
Posts: 79
Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

Hey guys and girls, I know the topic of marathon training and crossfit has come up innumerable times, and I promise that I did indeed search the old posts. The overwhelming majority of the older threads were about people wanting to run their first marathon, not caring what their time was, and just wanting to finish with primarily crossfit as their training modality. My question is somewhat different. In 2006 I ran CIncinnati's flying pig marathon, with no serious prior running training, my first marathon, in 3:24. I have not been running since, with the exception of the WOD's and rugby practice. The next marathon is in May 2008, and I want to do a little extra preparation for it this time. My question is:

How do you think it is best to supplement strict adherence to the WOD in order to drop my marathon time below 3 hours in the next 5 months?

This is going to work out to running just under 7 minute miles the whole time. I'm thinking about adding in 3 days per week of extra running: one day of either speed work (intervals) on the track alternated weekly with hill repeats, one day of tempo running slowly increasing mileage at the projected 6:50-7:00 mile pace, and a long run every two weeks, with the alternate weekly slot open for running as felt.

day 1WOD
day 2WOD
day 3WOD+speed work or hill repeats
day 4off
day 5WOD+tempo run
day 6WOD
day 7WOD+long run or other
day 8off

What do you all think of this schedule? any hints or tips? As with everyone else, I don't want to lose any of the broad range of fitness that crossfit has given me, although I anticipate a lull in the explosive gains in size and strength that I have been getting lately. I think by eating and resting properly I can offset the extra volume of physical output, but I could be naive. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I don't have any unrealistic expectations of "getting huge/jacked/swole while also breaking two hours in the marathon", I just want to reach my goal of a sub 3 hour marathon while minimizing stagnation in other aspects of fitness. Thank You guys
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 07:39 AM   #2
Gant Grimes
Departed Gant Grimes is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 1,549
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

Gant's Marathon Training Tips (TM)

Run 800m
Punch yourself in the face

*Repeat until you come to your senses
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 07:42 AM   #3
Jay Cohen
Member Jay Cohen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sharpsville  PA
Posts: 3,384
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
Gant's Marathon Training Tips (TM)

Run 800m
Punch yourself in the face

*Repeat until you come to your senses
LOL, x 4.
So, so so friggin true.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 07:58 AM   #4
George Mounce
Banned for Ethical and Integrity Violations George Mounce is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Steens  MS
Posts: 3,295
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gant Grimes View Post
Gant's Marathon Training Tips (TM)

Run 800m
Punch yourself in the face

*Repeat until you come to your senses


Brian - you don't want to lose the broad range of fitness but you want a great marathon time? CrossFit isn't going to make your marathon time a whole lot better, in fact it may hinder it. Marathons are considered specializing by most and don't fit into the broad and general part of CrossFit. Can you do both at the same time? Sure! Is one going to suffer from the other? Yes! If the ability to run 26.2 miles at a time was something CrossFit was striving for, you'd see on the main page "Run a marathon. Post time to comments." Since in my short 10 months of CrossFit I haven't seen this WOD, so I'm guessing that isn't something I'm striving to do at the highest level. Could I run a marathon today? Sure! Would I be world class? Nope.

I would suggest you train for your marathon leading up to it, then as recovery work on CrossFit. But of course that is going to move you back towards the general, rather than the specialized.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 07:58 AM   #5
Emily Mattes
Member Emily Mattes is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Baltimore  MD
Posts: 1,015
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

I would think you might want to work in long runs weekly, rather than on alternating weeks. And do runs and WODs at different times of the day. Probably runs as the second workout of the day?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 08:10 AM   #6
Daniel Freedman
Member Daniel Freedman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto  ON
Posts: 229
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

The answer is here
http://www.furman.edu/first/fmtp.htm (w/f/s)

You're on the right track. The FIRST program advocates alternating one day of hard cross training (such as CF) with one day of hard running. The program uses faster running and fewer miles than most others.

Once you ramp up, you would run three days, CrossFit three days and take one day off each week.

The running part is tough. Much of it is done at, near, or faster than race pace. Your initial benchmark is your 5k or 10k race pace.

Two marathon program are offered. You'll have to decide which one to use, and where to jump into the program. You might want to CrossFit more in the initial phases, cutting back to the 3 days a week closer to the race.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 08:24 AM   #7
Daniel Freedman
Member Daniel Freedman is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto  ON
Posts: 229
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

One final thought:

The FIRST program for marathon runners looking to get faster is 16 weeks. So you wouldn't have to start until January. That presumes a certain base level of running fitness, which I'm guessing you have now from rugby and the WODs.

One idea might be: for November and December, more or less stick with your current CF schedule. Maybe add some short, hard runs. Benchmark some 5k and 10k distances, so you're setting the bar higher when you begin the FIRST program. Do the FIRST program as prescribed from January to May.

I don't want re-hash here the tiresome "marathons are evil" debate that seems to pop with such tiresome regularity. But -- whichever side of the fence you're on -- it's hard to argue with the idea that CF and intense marathon training pull in opposite directions.

So I don't think doing WODs and hard running on the same day makes much sense. Nor do I agree with the idea that you should abandon your Marathon quest. Just decide what's important to you when, and focus on it. And, remember, you can re-adjust priorities as your goals change.

Last edited by Daniel Freedman : 11-19-2007 at 08:54 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 09:09 AM   #8
Eddie Clark
Member Eddie Clark is offline
 
Eddie Clark's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Westerville  OH
Posts: 111
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

Congrats on the 3:24 for a first time marathon.

I have run five marathons myself. Times ranging from 3:10 to 3:17. I qualified for Boston with the 3:10. In my train up for the qualifying effort and all of my other marathons I continued to lift weights albeit iso-bodybuilding type movements (this was before I found Crossfit). I weighed any where from 195 to 205 pounds when I ran them. I liked the idea of being a bigger runner that could actually run. Plus I liked to see all of the typical runner type's faces when they would see me at the finish line eating my banana and bagel as they were crossing the finish line. That being said...

You are hoping to shave almost a minute off of your, already solid, 7:47 pace. To run a 2:59 marathon will require a 6:50 pace. In my experience the faster you get the more difficult it is to shave even a couple of seconds off your pace (I hope I am not insulting your intelligence here). Especially once you enter the sub 7:30 pace range. 4 of the 5 Marathons that I have ran were between 3:16-3:17 and all of these efforts I would call fun runs for me. But when I decided I would shave that 5 minutes from my Marathon or 12 seconds from my pace the race turned into a completely different animal. I did revise my training to include sprint work and some hill work prior to qualifying. With all the hard work that 12 seconds was all I could muster that day. Luckily it was enough.

I am not saying it can't be done. But I believe at that level you are going to have to do considerably more running than your above plan. Of course I am saying this without ever using CrossFit as my primary training/conditioning to prep for a Marathon. I am currently overseas but when I get done, sometime next year, I fully intend to experiment on myself by running a Marathon using Crossfit as my primary training.

Here is a bit of food for thought from Mark Twight of Gym Jones. Basically he says, "to go long you got to go long."
(WFS) http://www.gymjones.com/knowledge.php?id=8

What I did during training was supplement my shorter run days with weight lifting. That seemed to work pretty well and also kept me from burning out. However the one rest day was a total rest day. No weights or no little runs just cause I felt good.

My .02 for what they are worth.

Good luck and definitely keep the board posted.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 10:55 AM   #9
Ellis King
Member Ellis King is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Houston  Texas
Posts: 51
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

I would recommend taking a look at programs designed by Owen Anderson, editor for Running Research News. His programs use periods of CrossFit style circuit training, running-specific drills, plyometrics, etc. It is definitely geared towards running-specific fitness, but you could do CrossFit on alternate days to cheap the "broad, general and inclusive fitness".

Also, I can recommend Anderson's "Great Workouts for Popular Races", which fleshes out the material here:
* http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0839.htm (WFS)
* http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0851.htm (WFS)

Anderson's program, with its circuit training and my wanting to find more similar routines, is how I stumbled upon CrossFit, by the way.

Last edited by Lynne Pitts : 11-22-2007 at 08:18 AM. Reason: All links MUST state whether or not they are work/family safe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 12:11 PM   #10
Andrew G. Greenberg
Member Andrew G. Greenberg is offline
 
Andrew G. Greenberg's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Charlotte  NC
Posts: 623
Re: Marathon Advice (don't kill me, I did use the search function)

Running and WOD on the same day will burn you out in about a week. Gotta split them up.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need advice on how to use Crossfit in training for Triathlons, and 5K/10K/half-marathon races??? Christine Denahan Fitness 6 07-23-2007 05:21 PM
The Waterrower (yes I used the search function :-) Paul Findley Equipment 1 04-17-2007 02:15 PM
Please kill me now Paul Worman Equipment 3 12-22-2006 03:44 PM
Parallettes kill my palms. Wayne Eddy Starting 5 04-02-2006 08:03 PM
Found a new way to kill myself Donald Woodson Community 36 04-07-2005 07:02 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.