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Old 11-12-2007, 06:20 PM   #31
Kris Warner
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

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Originally Posted by David Wood View Post
Hey, Kris, no need to rub it in. Like I said, I already stopped feeling good about it.
You are already pulling 405+ so what is there not to feel good about? I'd only feel bad if I was the guy busting my but every week and not progressing at all on the DL. Everyone starts starts light and makes progress. If your end goal is not to pull as much weight as you physically can then it doesn't matter if you ever touch anything over 225. But if your end goal is to be the strongest DLer you can be, then with the right program you should make it to 225, 315 then 405 fairly rapidly. (6-12mos?)
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:36 PM   #32
David Aguasca
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

kris,

no hard feelings...i can only speak for myself on this, but i wasn't bashing Ronnie. he's a hard worker, a strong guy, and a master at what he does.

i don't know if i'll ever pull over 405. if so, it won't be for a long, long time. i'm a crossfitter, but first and foremost i'm a climber. my weight fluctuates between 140-146 (depends on whether i'm full of food or not, lol) so a 405 DL wolud be closing in on 3x BW. getting that lift at my current BW would require too much specific training, time better spent climbing, for me. to pull 405 at higher BW would be easier because of strength gains from added muscle, but at the expense of my climbing ability.

as for this statement:

"I will say that it is really easy to train ANYONE to be able to pull 405 regardless of weight."

could you train a 100lb woman to pull 405?
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:36 PM   #33
Derek Maffett
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

405 would not be easy for me. That's a 3.5x deadlift.

Anyways, 2.5x is just fine and does show that Coleman is strong. But it cannot be argued that if he had spent time developing actual strength, he would have well over 3x. He's a bodybuilder, though, and that isn't his goal. Like the kipping vs. strict debate, this discussion has been thrown around before. Not worth fighting over.

Edit: Can SS actually bring me up to say 300 in the deadlift? I'm going to have to get that book.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:40 PM   #34
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

My little sister would have a problem deadlifting 405lbs. She only weighs 60 something pounds!
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:19 AM   #35
Steven Low
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

For those of us that are below 150 pounds, it would take a fair amount of training (probably years) to achieve high 2.x-3x+ bw deadlift for 405 lbs. That's just the facts unless you're a genetic mutant. It can be done, but it won't be easy.

I would say 2x bodyweight deadlift is fairly easy to obtain given good linear progress though (unless you weigh 200+ and are over 30% BF.. might take you a little while to cut the fat and gain enough muscle to do it).

Anyway, Ronnie is a beast regardless.. but that was funny.
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:36 AM   #36
Brandon Oto
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

Brian D. is pulling 405 at 153, but he's not at all normal.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:01 AM   #37
Kris Warner
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

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Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
405 would not be easy for me. That's a 3.5x deadlift.

Anyways, 2.5x is just fine and does show that Coleman is strong. But it cannot be argued that if he had spent time developing actual strength, he would have well over 3x. He's a bodybuilder, though, and that isn't his goal. Like the kipping vs. strict debate, this discussion has been thrown around before. Not worth fighting over.

Edit: Can SS actually bring me up to say 300 in the deadlift? I'm going to have to get that book.
405 is possible with an increase in strength which gives an increase in muscle mass which comes from more calories. If you eat like Rip suggests then blazing through PR's becomes easy. By the low bodyweights I'm seeing in this thread none of you would be down for putting 30lb-50lbs on. How old/tall are the people who are less than 150lbs?

Coleman trained like a PLer before he was a BBer and DLing 800 means he incorporates PLin in his BBing routine. So is he a BBer, PLer or mix? Have you ever seen a PLer get cut up?

Last edited by Kris Warner : 11-13-2007 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:21 AM   #38
David Aguasca
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

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Originally Posted by Kris Warner View Post
405 is possible with an increase in strength which gives an increase in muscle mass which comes from more calories. If you eat like Rip suggests then blazing through PR's becomes easy. By the low bodyweights I'm seeing in this thread none of you would be down for putting 30lb-50lbs on. How old/tall are the people who are less than 150lbs?

Coleman trained like a PLer before he was a BBer and DLing 800 means he incorporates PLin in his BBing routine. So is he a BBer, PLer or mix? Have you ever seen a PLer get cut up?
i'm 5'10", 145lbs as of yesterday. could i DL 405 with enough training and food (and thus weight gain)? sure. but i refuse to gain 50lbs, because then i'd suck at climbing, and my career as a guide would be much harder. so if i ever DL 405, it's going to be at a weight within 10-15lbs of what i am now.

that's a completely separate argument, though. the point you made is that ANYONE (regardless of bodyweight, and excepting very old or young age, or injuries or congenital disorders) could DL 405, which isn't true...pick your words carefully.

also, whenever making an overarching statement like that, it's a good idea to cite the people who originally stated it....it draws a lot of the possible flak away from you and onto the person who said it first
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:32 AM   #39
David Wood
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

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Originally Posted by Kris Warner View Post
How old/tall are the people who are less than 150lbs?
So, for the record, I'm 5'5", 155 pounds, and 52 years old.

The 405 (2.6x BW) came last year; since then, I've had an f'd up shoulder and surgery last June; still discovering the limits of that repair. Had a comfortable 315 triple and 365 (2.3x BW) single about 2 weeks ago; I hope (expect) to get 405 again by Feb or March. And yeah . . . I'm not going to add 30 or 40 pounds to my body to do it . . . 155 is as much as I want to weigh.

Oh, and, for the record . . . I did this with *NO* additional DL training beyond what the WOD provides. None, nada, zilch. But my body structure (short, obviously, but with a fairly "normal" torso and ridiculously short legs) is probably a significant asset in deadlifting.

No offense to Kris, or to Rip . . . but stating that "anyone" can "easily" be trained to do a 405 DL is a bit of an overstatement, and undervalues what it takes to do that.

Maybe something like: "Most adult males can strengten and bulk up to do a 405 pound DL in 6 - 12 months of conscientious and challenging training" would seem (to me) more accurate.

Last edited by David Wood : 11-13-2007 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:03 PM   #40
Andy Wagner
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Re: Ronnie Coleman leg pressing

A couple of things to keep in mind.

1) The deadlift ratio to bwt somewhat decreases as the size of the lifter increases. A 2.5xbwt deadlift is not bad for a 150 lb lifter, but for a 200 lb lifter, it is even better. A person's bulk (mass) does greatly affect the amount one can deadlift as opposed to a lift like the squat. Case in point. I can remember when World class powerlifter John Kuc, back in the late 70s, had reduced his bodyweight from around 290 to 240 lbs so he could compete in the 242 lb weight class. His max squat dropped around 100 lbs but his deadlift stayed the same.

2) The deadlift does not greatly increase as the size of the lifter increases. Look at this link to the all time world records in the deadlift. A few things pop out. The Worlds record for the men's 114 lb and under weight class is 639.3 while the superheavy weight (over 308 lbs) Worlds record deadlift is 931.5 lbs. Less than 300 lbs difference. Also, many of the crossfitters posting on this subject would seem to fall into the 148 lb weight class. The deadlift world record is 705.5 lbs. A little more than 200 lbs behind the all time world record.

I believe the point that Kris is making is valid. It may take some crossfitters a little longer to perform a 405 lb deadlift, but it is not out of reach for anyone. (At least for the bodyweights listed so far in this post).
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