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Old 07-23-2009, 07:26 AM   #41
John Praeuner
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Re: supplements

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Originally Posted by Justin Shipley View Post
Gee. Your experiences vs. his....

'My anecdotal evidence is better than your anecdotal evidence....'
He raises a good point by saying that just b/c the guy worked at a shop he doesn't necessarily know jack squat about supps.

What anecdotal evidence does he use other than his friend that worked at GNC? I would agree that has nothing to do with the argument- but what about his point on NOX?
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:34 AM   #42
Jeremy Raffer
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Re: supplements

You can have an awesome body and be very healthy with out taking any supplements
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:22 PM   #43
Justin Shipley
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Re: supplements

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Originally Posted by John Praeuner View Post
He raises a good point by saying that just b/c the guy worked at a shop he doesn't necessarily know jack squat about supps.

What anecdotal evidence does he use other than his friend that worked at GNC? I would agree that has nothing to do with the argument- but what about his point on NOX?
I took exception to his trashing of another poster's long list of anecdotal evidence and personal experience.
No; working in a shop qualifies you for nothing, but if you have eyes and a brain you can see what's happening, or not, for the customers, and if (god forbid) you should ask THEIR personal experiences with various substances, you can combine this with your own experiences and observations and commonsense, and start to identify some patterns that keep repeating.

This carries far more weight with me than 'Well, I took supplement XXXX and I liked it', then trash the observations of another poster who has taken XXXX, and YYYY, and ZZZZ, and so on and so on....

And it irks me that you would defend this attitude.

Dane might be the local distributor for all the supps he mentions for all I know... and Stu might be the local agent for NOX, but who cares? Dane puts forth a far weightier case, and a more eloquent defense, right or wrong...
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:56 PM   #44
Mark Lanza
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Re: supplements

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Raffer View Post
You can have an awesome body and be very healthy with out taking any supplements
Very, very well put. I hope more folks take notice.

Mark
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:07 PM   #45
Dane Grace
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Re: supplements

I don't work in the industry anymore. I realize that I didn't state that I was offering my opinion on supplements (and NOX) from personal experience and not toting evidence-based advice. I should have been way more careful with that disclaimer in my original response.

Justin hit the nail on the head. The sheer reality of the matter is that there is really no evidence that 99 percent of the stuff on our shelved does, (nutritionally) to or for your body anything at all. There have been no studies conducted nor any case reports filed that have demonstrated direct, controlled associations between supplements and health/performance/etc. I try to be careful when presenting evidence regarding supplements. The strongest qualifiers anyone can assign to nearly any supplement at this point and time is "studies have indicated ..." or "there is evidence that suggests ...".

The reality is - and I thought I made this clear in my original response - is that food has been proven beyond any measure of a doubt to be effective.

Sorry for the hijack and shenanigans.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:45 PM   #46
John Praeuner
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Re: supplements

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Originally Posted by Justin Shipley View Post
I took exception to his trashing of another poster's long list of anecdotal evidence and personal experience.
No; working in a shop qualifies you for nothing, but if you have eyes and a brain you can see what's happening, or not, for the customers, and if (god forbid) you should ask THEIR personal experiences with various substances, you can combine this with your own experiences and observations and commonsense, and start to identify some patterns that keep repeating.

This carries far more weight with me than 'Well, I took supplement XXXX and I liked it', then trash the observations of another poster who has taken XXXX, and YYYY, and ZZZZ, and so on and so on....

And it irks me that you would defend this attitude.

Dane might be the local distributor for all the supps he mentions for all I know... and Stu might be the local agent for NOX, but who cares? Dane puts forth a far weightier case, and a more eloquent defense, right or wrong...
I wasn't defending his attitude, I was just pointing out that his post wasn't wholly worthless. Nor was I saying the other guy was totally full of crap as well.

Meh, it doesn't really matter, or pertain to the convo. Onward!

Eat food, lift heavy objects, sleep. rinse repeat
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:10 PM   #47
Matthew Beals
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Re: supplements

Here's my list of supplements:
cumin, coriander, turmeric, basil, garlic, ginger, cayenne pepper, nutmeg, thyme, oregano, bay leaf...
etc.

They're cheap, found in every grocery store, have been in use for thousands of years, and make your food taste awesome. They haven't all been studied extensively, but many/most of them have been shown to have some pretty desirable effects on your health. Better digestion, improved circulation, improved immune function...

Did I mention your food will taste better?

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