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Old 11-09-2005, 12:17 PM   #1
Justin Davis
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I have been making some progress in the area of backcountry Zone nutrition. My main issue is getting fat blocks due to portability. I am fatally allergic to nuts and fish, which makes fat blocks harder to take in. I am working on getting some "safe" hulled sunflower seeds.
I have not been able to find a good bottle for Olive oil. The nalgene squeeze bottles are leaking on me. A non-squeeze will not work in the cold, and ski touring is one of my sport. Any suggestions on bottles? Mr. Twight?
Also any other good ideas for fat blocks? Eating mayo is pretty much out, same with Guac, but I am otherwise open minded on the matter.
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Old 11-09-2005, 01:08 PM   #2
Michael Ledney
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How about butter? That's pretty portable, perhaps too much so in the cold
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:10 PM   #3
mark twight
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4oz Nalgene screw top bottle is what I use. It doesn't leak. Once the olive oil has been in there the bottle useless for anything else.

Have you tried MCTs for fat? I used them a bit one season. My stomach tolerated them though I know some who had trouble with it.

Mark T.
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Old 11-09-2005, 09:03 PM   #4
Eric Moffit
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i just refill a 17oz Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil bottle thats glass. its about the size of a water bottle, and w/ the amount of olive oil i guzzle, im not constantly refilling it. my family thinks im crazy, but consuming olive oil as my source of fat is easier and cheaper than all the nuts. id have to be nuts to only eat nuts...ZING!
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Old 11-10-2005, 12:25 AM   #5
Justin Davis
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Mark, thanks for the insight and tips.
I honestly had to Google MCT in order to figure out what they are (medium-chain triglycerides). I will give it a shot.
Will also try the Screw top bottle although I am a bit concerned about the olive oil solidifying and becoming impossible to get out of the bottle, since the squeeze is not possible. I suppose I can leverage "pocket technology" for warming purposes. In the days before Zone I roadtripped one winter and was unable to use olive oil at all due to it being in solid state in my van the whole winter long.
I am going to avoid butter eating, as I end up getting too much Sat fat as it is with my dietary limitations and +2/3 fat blocks at an average meal. I wish they made Olive Oil butter nuggets, or perhaps GU packets filled with avocado or Olive oil.
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Old 11-10-2005, 12:48 PM   #6
Robert Wolf
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Are coconuts on that list? I know you have the St'd fat concerns but that works pretty well.

I do not generally recomend flax oil but you could use use some to decrease the freezing point of the olive oil. I have looked everywhere I can think to find the coligitive properties of olive oil as well as how much makes a mole so we could dial in your antifreeze.....I will keep looking around but this may be a project for someone else!

With a little experimentation you should be able to find a ratio that keeps the olive oil liquid even at very low temps.
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:56 PM   #7
Robert Wolf
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Here is an email response to a guy with an excellent Olive Oil site:

Dear Robb:

Determining the volume of a mole of olive oil is going to be quite a feet as
it is comprised of generally 3 different molecules all of which vary in
percentages from olive oil to olive oil. I do not have a periodic table on
hand, and to be honest if I did I still wouldn't have the time to calculate
the masses and ratios of each molecule in order to figure out the volume of
a mole, however if you do have the time and a chemistry background you could
use the follwing information to get an idea of what your looking for.

Fatty Acids:

Olive Oil is a complex compound made of fatty acids, vitamins, volatile
components, water soluble components and microscopic bits of olive. Primary
fatty acids are Oleic and linoleic acid with a small amount of linolenic

A fatty acid has the general formula: CH3(CH2)nCOOH where n is typically
an even number between 12 and 22
If no double bonds are present the molecule is called a saturated fatty
If a chain contains double bonds, it is called an unsaturated fatty acid.
A single double bond makes a monounsaturated fatty acid
Oils with more that one double bond are called polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Oleic acid is monounsaturated and makes up 55-85% of olive oil
(C17H35COOH) or CH3-(CH2)7-CH=CH-(CH2)7-COOH also known as oleate.
The IUPAC name would be cis-9-octadecenoate
Linoleic is polyunsaturated and makes up about 9%
(C17H29COOH) or CH3-(CH2)4-CH=CH-CH2-CH=CH-(CH2)7-COOH
Linolenic, which is polyunsaturated, makes up 0-1.5%

All of this information can be obtained by clicking on the the following

Once you caluculate olive oils molecular weight use the equation on the
following link to convert your mole to milliliters:

If you do the math and figure out the general volume of a mole of olive oil
we would love to get that information to post on our site.

I know I haven't answered your question but I hope I have been of some help.


Ed Deane

The Olive Oil Source
390 Vista Grande
Greenbrae, CA 94904
(415) 461-6267 voice
(415) 461-1815 fax

-----Original Message-----
From: Robb Wolf []
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: Odd question

I moderate a nutrition message board and i am trying to figure out how much
flax oil to add to some tetra virgin olive oil to reduce the "freezing
point" of the olive oil so people can use it as an energy source while
skiing and alpining. Do you know what the volume is of a "mole" of olive
oil? I have been looking at all the physical data tables I can
find...nothing yet!

Any help would be much appreciated
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:50 PM   #8
Justin Davis
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Robb, thanks for all the leg work and suggestions.
Just when I got the lbs/kg/pood conversions down, now this. :lol:
I have yet to mess much with Flax seed oil, as I know there is a bunch of discussion surrounding the benefits. Using it as Anti-freeze is something I never would have thought of. Will it work for coolant in the summer?
I had not thought of coconut, as it is not a favorite, however I will give it another shot as the relative blandness will likely be kind to the stomach.
This thread is really blowing up my mind, I really appreciate all the help and suggestions.
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Old 11-10-2005, 04:41 PM   #9
Andrew Brown
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I live in Florida, so cold wx is obviously not my specialty, but instead of trying to avoid solidification, why don't you work with it? Pemmican comes to mind- instead of relying on a squeeze bottle, why not make something that is solid enough to eat like fudge?
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Old 11-11-2005, 10:16 AM   #10
Garrett Smith
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My suggestion would be a high quality fish oil. You could do capsules or liquid in your drink. Soy lecithin or a little egg yolk mixed in would help to emulsify (make water-soluble) the fish oil. Or just pop the capsules. They will not freeze, they are all poly/un-saturated fats and are much better for you than flax. FYI, Dr. Sears' big new thing is high-quality fish oil, a lot of it. Yes, flavor and burping are a concern with *certain* brands. I have found a brand (Pharmax, not Pharmanex) that no one I know has had a problem with. It has a mild lemon flavor. It is sold directly to physicians, if you are interested in obtaining some, PM me. I put a whole tablespoon in my morning Zone smoothie. Otherwise, a good layman brand is Carlson's. Definitely not as good-tasting, it is high quality though. Or you could pay Dr. Sears directly (and pay through the nose).

Olives stuffed with blue cheese are another option, about 2 equal a fat block. If you eat 'on the run', this won't work real well though.
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