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Old 04-15-2010, 08:55 PM   #71
Albert Chang
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

I'm not an elite CFer, and I don't use calorie restriction. Couldn't imagine what would happen if I ate less than I did now.

Not looking to lose weight or anything. Not even aiming to bring down my bf%.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:30 PM   #72
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

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Originally Posted by Scott A Martin View Post
Do you mean to suggest that your body can be in a state of equilibrium with respect to energy intake/expenditure while eating X calories/day, but somehow increasing your intake to Y calories/day, where Y > X, ceteris paribus, will somehow lead to an energy deficit?
The thing that a lot of people miss is that calories expended is not a fixed number. It's pretty well established that metabolism (therefore energy expenditure) slows when the body is in a severe calorie deficit. Hungry people sleep a lot, and don't have much interest in going to the gym. Call this value Mc (metabolism--conservation). If you eat enough to quiet your system's starvation fears, and especially if you eat enough to support exercise, you can raise your expenditure to some value Me (metabolism--exercise), where Me > Mc.

So Mc - X = Dc (deficit -- conservation), and Me - Y = De (deficit--exercise). You can have De > Dc, meaning that you can create a larger deficit by eating more.

Katherine
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:39 PM   #73
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

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Originally Posted by Scott A Martin View Post
All else being equal (which is what I said), the fewer calories you eat, the more weight you will lose. Your "oomph" theory suggests that all else is not equal. Nonetheless, how much extra "oomph" are we talking about? Burning 100 calories is pretty tough relative to eating 100 calories. I'm doubtful that eating X calories will lead to an extra >X calories being burned during workouts due to the extra "oomph."
A large fraction of your total calories burned during the day is due to random activity. Getting up and pacing around your office while on the phone, drumming your fingers, that kind of thing. Do a search on "non-exercise activity thermogenesis" (NEAT) and you'll find that it can burn as much as an extra 100 calories *per hour*, and that the body appears to adjust this expenditure to maintain what it thinks is your "ideal" energy balance.

Katherine
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:57 PM   #74
Kevin Kim
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

One thing is for sure, a unusually low calorie diet doesn't work and its not about calories in and calories out with my body type. I've done that for too long and am an expert at retaining stubborn fat, lol. I have done:

1. MMA training for 6 months straight
2. Body for Life
3. The Abs Diet
4. Cross Fit

And have never been ripped.

I just need to eat more and in a few months I'll report back and let you all know how it pans out. As far as carb ups, honestly, I am thinking about just ditching the idea and keeping around 30 - 100 on fruits & nuts only. That sound good?

As far as dead lifts & squat, I know what those are lol. I just don't know my max.

As far as my exercise, isn't Cross Fit three days a week and 1-2 lifting sessions plenty enough? Running? I just got done running / rowing / burpies like crazy for today's WOD

As far as post work out carbs, I think I'm going to ditch it and up my fat and protein. If this is truly going to help burn my stubborn fat, I'm for it. I will lift two days a week with no post carbs.

Thanks for the feedback. I am a noobie with malleable nutritional doctrine, ready to hear what everyone has to say. I actually already have begun upping my fat intake and eating much more protein.

And is it me or does fat freaking energize you? I ate a ton of guacamole this morning and I didn't nauseous AT ALL during today's work out. Cool stuff..
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:27 PM   #75
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

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Originally Posted by Kevin Kim View Post
One thing is for sure, a unusually low calorie diet doesn't work and its not about calories in and calories out with my body type. I've done that for too long and am an expert at retaining stubborn fat, lol. I have done:

1. MMA training for 6 months straight
2. Body for Life
3. The Abs Diet
4. Cross Fit
Please stick with Crossfit for longer than six months. For the most part, the only overweight martial artists I can think of are either beginners, or so senior that they just teach and don't actually do much physical training any more. But six months isn't enough time, and MMA is too difficult if you're only in it for the abs. (Same could be said of Crossfit, btw.)

Quote:
As far as my exercise, isn't Cross Fit three days a week and 1-2 lifting sessions plenty enough? Running? I just got done running / rowing / burpies like crazy for today's WOD
Enough for what? You still haven't given us any goals beyond "getting ripped."

Katherine
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:28 PM   #76
Casey Crooks
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

I have the same experience with fats vs. carbs pre workout. A bowl of grits or waffles, pukie shows his head. Eggs and bacon, good to go.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:51 PM   #77
Kevin Kim
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

I want to lose 12-15 lbs of fat & gain 5-8 lbs of muscle, so some muscle gains and mostly loss of body fat.

By the way, I wanted to add a picture of me flexing to show that I'm not all fat , I do have some muscular development just not that much and fat covering around it. Do you guys think I am assessing correctly what I need to do in order to have a lean yet strong looking physique with abs showing?

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As far as performance, I am getting better times at Cross Fit and pretty much hitting Personal Records every time (I started only in Feb), so I'm not too worried about increasing performance. While I may not look it, I've been an athlete involved in wrestling and kick boxing since high school.

Honestly, I care about my physique right now. I have been an athlete for years and I don't need to convince myself to be stronger or faster at anything. It's just that I've never looked the part which is why I'm so frustrated.

And yes, I am willing to throw all of my knowledge of diet & body composition out the window. That's why I'm here, I want to learn from you all!

Last edited by Kevin Kim : 04-15-2010 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:56 PM   #78
Donald Lee
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

Kevin,

This book may be a good start for you:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-g...exible-dietingYOU MUST ANNOTATE ALL LINKS WHETHER WORK AND FAMILY SAFE.

It'll help you get your dieting basics in check. If you don't feel like paying for it, you could just read the articles on his site.

Also, stubborn fat should not be your concern until you're at 10-12% BF. Stubborn fat is the last to go, which is why it is stubborn. You have to get rid of the rest of your fat first.

Last edited by Donald Lee : 04-15-2010 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:15 PM   #79
Kevin Kim
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

Thanks for the link. I am confused though, I'm going to quote some of Lyle McDonald:

"I have known people who have to go to 8 cal/lb (often with an hour of activity daily) to lose fat at any reasonable rate. So if youíre basing the 20% reduction on one of the estimation equations, that may be getting you into trouble. If your true maintenance isnít actually 15 cal/lb, using a 20% reduction from that starting point wonít yield appreciable fat loss because true maintenance is lower than the equation is predicting."

"However, assuming that none of the above is the actual problem, what would I recommend someone in this situation do? Itís easy, if a 20% deficit is not generating reasonable enough fat loss, Iíd suggest increasing the deficit by an additional 10% (this can be done by reducing calories or increasing activity a bit) for a month to see what happens. If thatís still not working, maybe go another 10% for a month. And if nothing has happened by then, Iíd suggest getting some blood work done because something would appear to be profoundly wrong."

Given that I exercise intensely every week, what Lyle McDonald is suggesting is that I go down to 8 calories per pound or even lower? That's like 1400 calories a day or less..
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:28 PM   #80
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: I have failed at getting ripped for 5 years..please help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kim View Post
Thanks for the link. I am confused though, I'm going to quote some of Lyle McDonald:

"I have known people who have to go to 8 cal/lb (often with an hour of activity daily) to lose fat at any reasonable rate. So if you’re basing the 20% reduction on one of the estimation equations, that may be getting you into trouble. If your true maintenance isn’t actually 15 cal/lb, using a 20% reduction from that starting point won’t yield appreciable fat loss because true maintenance is lower than the equation is predicting."
Please provide a link so that we can see the full context. Simply from this paragraph, he appears to be saying that SOME people need to go as low as 8 cal/lb., not that YOU do, and certainly not that you should START with that number.

By the way, do you keep a food log? If not, you should start. It's really tough to know how much you're actually eating unless you log it. If you *think* you're eating 1500 cal/day, but it's actually more like 2500, then your situation is totally different from what we've been assuming in this thread.

Katherine

Last edited by Katherine Derbyshire : 04-15-2010 at 11:32 PM.
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