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Old 10-02-2007, 12:37 AM   #31
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

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Originally Posted by Corey Duvall View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war WFS


Does it make ALL religious fervor wrong? People died...



I'm sorry you lost friends due to drug use. That is a terrible thing to have happen. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't the drugs, it was the person. We all have personal responsibility for our own actions, and if we get caught up in abuse of drugs to the point our lives are "ruined" we have no one to blame but ourselves. As soon as we blame the drugs we lose our responsibility, which means we lose our freedom.
Oh man you must not have too much experience with crazy *** drug abusers.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 01:57 AM   #32
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

I didn't so much lose them, they lost themselves. If they were addicted to exercise, none of that wouldn't have happened and that is a fact.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 02:38 AM   #33
Matt Fargen
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

I think that illegal drugs as well as alcohol and tobacco should be avoided. The good feeling derived from drugs is an artificial reinforcement. The natural reinforcements one might argue are included in brain physiology to (teleologically) improve our adaptations. For example sex (procreation, continuance of species); love and friendship (the need for members of a group to get along and help each other); after exercise (we need to use it or lose it, and be fit to complete tasks and defend ourselves). If you replace the natural stimulus (adaptive ones) with artificial (drugs) the response may be the same or even better but in the long run you might find lesser degrees of adaptation and addiction. Also your performance when impaired (driving drunk, driving WHILE SMOKING, etc etc) may make just enough difference to cause an otherwise avoidable bad consequence. Believe me, drug and alcohol addiction is not trivial.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 05:31 AM   #34
Emily Mattes
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

If they were addicted to exercise, none of that wouldn't have happened and that is a fact.

Actually, they very well could have ended up dying. There is a physiological limit to what amount of exertion the body can take before it starts breaking down.

I differentiate between "hard" drugs and "soft" drugs. Granted, the addictiveness of the drug often depends on the person--meth and cocaine are not physiologically addictive like nicotine and heroin but can be tremendously psychologically addictive. But some drugs are more quick to develop psychological or physical dependence in others. I don't think we'd be much harmed by legalizing marijuana. But heroin? Crack? I live in Baltimore. My city is a poster child for crack. It has its good parts, but the parts that are bad are really bad, utterly violent and broken. The addicts here are not doing crack because it's "cool", they're doing it because they live in miserable ghettos and that is one of the few escapes they have. Legalizing would not reduce the psychological or physical dependency. It would eliminate much of the gang violence, it's true, but it would subconsciously perpetuate the idea those drugs are "safe" and I think ultimately result in more experimentation. We don't need that.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 08:13 AM   #35
John Alston
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

One's personal decision to use or not use any substance should be made be them and them alone. The government, doctors, friends, family, teachers, and the rest should act as advisors (I'm talking about adults here) but not rule makers who are backed by force - aka, cops with guns. (And if you don't think cops use real violence against peaceful and suspected (but innocent) drug users, check out the huge list of examples at, say, http://www.theagitator.com for just one source of examples.)
How one can respect others' freedom of speech but not respect their freedom of mind - the freedom to play with one's brain as one sees fit, whether through eating candy for sugar rush or mushrooms for a natural trip, reading or mediating, fasting or dumbing down with tv - not respecting those fields or freedom yields autonomy to authorities with other interests. It's treating adults like children.
Note that operating vehichles and the like are not being condoned here because those put others in a direct risk. Me smoking/tripping/etc in my room with my friends only puts us at risk.

How many straight edge kids does it take to finish a 40oz?
One, if no one's looking.

(It's a funny joke b/c it's true.)
 
Old 10-02-2007, 10:24 AM   #36
Corey Duvall
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

People who try hard drugs have no idea that they are bad for you, addictive, and can help you ruin your life.

Does anyone agree with that statement? I certainly don't. In today's society how can ANYONE be so oblivious to not know there can be negative consequences to drug use? At that point, they choose to ingest them into their body through stomach, lungs, nose or venipuncture and inherently accept the consequences. At the point that we say, it wasn't his fault, he was addicted to crack, we lose personal responsibility and freedom. Because when something else can control us we no longer have the freedom to opt out of any situation. In which case we can also not accept praise and gratitude for doing anything good. Our life becomes entirely reliant upon our surroundings and we have no control over it, merely observers of activity.

I disagree with allowing that to happen. I instead choose to accept responsibility for that which happens to and around me. I choose to be free, to have the choice to be who I want to be. If I do something wrong, I accept blame, but if I do something well, I'll accept the praise for that as well.

Jason, I don't know you or what happened to folks you knew in high school. I don't know your personal dealings with crazy *** drug abusers. I would doubt however that you do not want to accept praise for the things that I'm sure you do well. In which case you must accept blame for that which you do wrong. This makes you free, but for you to be free you must allow others to be free as well. Free to make their own choices. Certain drugs were made illegal because they were thought to lead to dangerous activities. At that point however we take each individuals right to make that decision, we take their freedom. What needs to happen, what HAS happened with alcohol, are harsh penalties for actions against others. You or I can be as drunk as we want as long as we don't hurt or endanger anyone else. The laws against possesion of the drugs themselves are based on, what I believe to be, a false premise of: drugs have control over the person holding it. I know there are certain drugs that have more influence than others, but this does not negate that people still have control over if, when, how, or how much they use them. The drugs themselves are not the problem, the problem is the people that have no regard for others' freedoms. Do you still inherently disagree with me? If so, I'd like to hear your argument against.

Last edited by Corey Duvall : 10-02-2007 at 10:35 AM.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 12:48 PM   #37
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

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Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
If they were addicted to exercise, none of that wouldn't have happened and that is a fact.

Actually, they very well could have ended up dying. There is a physiological limit to what amount of exertion the body can take before it starts breaking down.
OOOOH Emily you're sooooo smaaart. No they wouldn't have died if they were exercising, no doubt about it. If marijuana was legalized there would be a rise in the youth of America doing drugs. I'm talking young kids. They would find some irresponsible adult and give them money to buy it for them. Then most of them would then grow up a lot dumber than they should be. Not a very bright future. I believe illegal drugs shouldn't be taken, not just because they are illegal, but because of what they do to people as well. When I lived in Denver, it came out in the newspaper that an adult was making his young children ages 4 and 6 I think smoke pot because he said it was making them smarter. The police arrested him. Count on a rise in crap like that too. You can say it's the person, not the pot, but making it more availible won't help anyone. It'll help the potheads that are already here, but no one else.

Last edited by Jason Lopez-Ota : 10-02-2007 at 12:57 PM.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 12:57 PM   #38
Emily Mattes
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

OK man, sorry for ****ing you off, this is kind of a run-over from the "Exercise Addiction" thread in the Fitness section. I was trying to point out that if one actually is addicted to exercise, in that it's an uncontrollable compulsion to do so (and this does happen), it is very possible you will push yourself right into a hospital.

Anyway, I'm sorry you've gone through this with your friends. Again, wasn't trying to be a *******.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 01:01 PM   #39
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

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OK man, sorry for ****ing you off, this is kind of a run-over from the "Exercise Addiction" thread in the Fitness section. I was trying to point out that if one actually is addicted to exercise, in that it's an uncontrollable compulsion to do so (and this does happen), it is very possible you will push yourself right into a hospital.

Anyway, I'm sorry you've gone through this with your friends. Again, wasn't trying to be a *******.
I wasn't ****ed off I just thought it was kind of amusing that you would go to that extent to nitpick my post.
 
Old 10-02-2007, 01:33 PM   #40
Brandon Oto
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Re: Drugs, Alcohol, And You.

This discussion is not going anywhere and not improving our lives at all.
 
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