CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2010, 05:15 AM   #1
Adam Carlson
Member Adam Carlson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Higashikurume  Tokyo
Posts: 833
Conjugate CF article

I did a quick search, but I don't think that I saw anything specifically set up to address the article and the questions that have likely popped up as a result of it. If there is a specific thread, please direct me to that one. Hopefully, Chris sees this and can answer the questions presented here.

I am very interested in the template, and plan on giving the full 9 weeks a go after I finish coaching wrestling in Feb. I also like the idea of doing the 9 weeks at least once a year. The freedom to hit it for a bit, and then move on to addressing other weaknesses is attractive to me.

In the meantime, here are my questions:

1) I read through the article a couple of times, but it didn't seem to explicitly say this (or I may have just been too obtuse to pick up on it): on max effort days (ME), are we building up to just 1x1 at the maximum effort? Or are we hitting a few sets at that weight?

2) how many exercises do you recommend to be done for assistance work?

3) Can primary lifts be done as assistance exercises at lower weight/higher reps?

4) Could you post 3 or 4 MetCons that you would say fit your recommendations the best? Obviously for King Kong would be a bad choice in this case as you pointed out in the article comments, but what about Linda (1.5BW DL, BW bench, 3/4BW squat cleans)?

Anyway, thanks for your time!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 11:13 AM   #2
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Conjugate CF article

Thanks for the thread Adam. I am happy to answer any questions asked. I really hope a lot of CFers give this a roll. I am very confident they will be glad they did.

Ok, your questions in order:

1) Yes, you work up to a 1RM max attempt (1 repetition maximum).
2) 1-3 sets per exercise for assistance work.
3) No, they should not be. Assistance work should be used to address weaknesses with the big compounds.
4) I will confess to not having the best knowledge of WODs, so it is hard for me to comment. Linda, the one you mentioned, would be on the heavier end of what I would recommend. In fact, I would use it very sparingly during the program. If you want to give me a few specific ones I can address them individually.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 12:19 PM   #3
Henrik Schou Pedersen
Member Henrik Schou Pedersen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Aarhus  Denmark
Posts: 44
Re: Conjugate CF article

Chris, say we have a guy who is kind of obsessed with getting his double bw squat as fast as possible (from 130kg currently to 155kg) and maybe has made a bet with a buddy about who will reach it first

Could I replace the ME upper with a ME lower, so that I have two ME lower a week, or would that be too hard on recovery? Could it be done if metcons were done twice a week instead of three for example?

Last edited by Henrik Schou Pedersen : 11-21-2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason: spelling
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 03:37 PM   #4
Adam Carlson
Member Adam Carlson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Higashikurume  Tokyo
Posts: 833
Re: Conjugate CF article

Thanks Chris! I hope a lot of other people jump on this thread. You have a lot of valuable info, and I personally appreciate your willingness to give it out to us. I'll be trying to get as much of it as I can

Would you recommend doing MetCons that focus mainly on the lower body on the day after lower body ME? or would it be better to put some distance between the two?

I'll post some WODs in a bit to have you look at them. Gotta get ready for teaching!

Thanks again!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 04:39 PM   #5
David Meverden
Member David Meverden is offline
 
David Meverden's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Charleston  SC
Posts: 2,802
Re: Conjugate CF article

I know you don't have results from this exact program yet, Chris, but I'm curious: have you, or lifters you know, implimented something similar with other athletes? A two day a week plan like this sounds like it would also be a good option for in-season athletes or people mostly focused on something like MMA or martial arts.

And as always, thanks for being an active member of the community, Chris! We all love getting experienced voices from different fields contributing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Schou Pedersen View Post
Could I replace the ME upper with a ME lower, so that I have two ME lower a week, or would that be too hard on recovery? Could it be done if metcons were done twice a week instead of three for example?
I've pretty confident Chris will say this is too much. Maybe you could make the second day a dynamic effort day, or add a few short accessory workouts throughout the week to help develop your weaknesses?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 07:07 PM   #6
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Conjugate CF article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik Schou Pedersen View Post
Chris, say we have a guy who is kind of obsessed with getting his double bw squat as fast as possible (from 130kg currently to 155kg) and maybe has made a bet with a buddy about who will reach it first

Could I replace the ME upper with a ME lower, so that I have two ME lower a week, or would that be too hard on recovery? Could it be done if metcons were done twice a week instead of three for example?

I think twice per week would likely be too much. You can probably do it for a few weeks and progress, but after that you will need a deload etc.

If pure strength is your goal, then do an exact Westside template and skip the WODs for a month or two.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 07:09 PM   #7
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Conjugate CF article

As to the WODs I asked the high level CrossFit athlete I have been working with what he chose for WODs and how he would address it and this is what he had to say (which I think is very good advice):


"In truth it's going to vary so much per individual. It's important to be working on your weaknesses. I think there are a ton of people that need to be working on gymnastics skills and running. The strength stuff is fun... as you know, so it's tough to make yourself go to the track and run 400 meter sprints. But some need this. This is where I implement it into the WOD as long as it's not going to interfere with my max days.


So in short, let them know they should be working on any weaknesses in the CrossFit workouts, addressing different time domains all the time (specifically those they may struggle with), and make sure the day prior to heavy work is not going to interfere. That is why I have my strength days the first day of each cycle, gives me a rest day before them.


Even a simple suggestion to follow .com could be beneficial. Hope this helps out a bit but it's so different for everyone that you can't give people a "one size fits all" answer. Below are some options if you need them.


Sub 5:


-Fran
-Diane
-Grace




Sub 10:


-Helen
-5 rounds of 15 swings (70 lbs), 15 burpees
-Elizabeth




10-15 min


- Amrap in 12 min: 1 rope climb, 9 db thrusters (35's)
- "Death by" Thrusters (115)
-5 rounds: 100 ft walking lunge, 30 box jump (24"), 20 wall ball, 10 hsup


20+ min:


-Cindy
-Filthy Fifty
-The Sevens




Some are from the mainsite, others I made up on my own, but they have some different functions of movement which is important for the variance piece. Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions. Remind them that the breadth of their adaptation will match the breadth of the stimulus. "
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 02:51 AM   #8
Doug Lantz
Member Doug Lantz is offline
 
Doug Lantz's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fountain Valley  CA
Posts: 216
Re: Conjugate CF article

Mr. Mason, thank you for posting this valuable article.

I would like to hear your advice to these questions, I'm sure others will benefit from your answers also -

1) Can a trainee use 3 or 5 rep maxes instead of a 1 rep max on the ME days ? Could one benefit from alternating the number of reps on ME day ?
I'm concerned about my form breaking down with 1RM.

2) How do you fit the program into a week ? My first thought was 2 on 1 off then 3 on 1 off with the first ME work on the first day of the week then the second ME day bracketed by traditional CrossFit WOD's.

3) How many reps is too few and how much weight is too heavy to use for the CrossFit metcons ?

Weight, I'm thinking in terms of percentages.
Your CrossFit athlete suggested 115 lb thrusters but what should a trainee's max be on a particular overhead lift be to use that weight ?
Would you base it off a 1RM strict press, push press or thruster ?

4) Any advice on how to structure the time domains of the WOD's in terms of how long to make each WOD based on the day of the cycle ?

I think one would not want to put the longest WOD of the training week right before ME day.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 09:35 PM   #9
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Conjugate CF article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lantz View Post
Mr. Mason, thank you for posting this valuable article.

I would like to hear your advice to these questions, I'm sure others will benefit from your answers also -

1) Can a trainee use 3 or 5 rep maxes instead of a 1 rep max on the ME days ? Could one benefit from alternating the number of reps on ME day ?
I'm concerned about my form breaking down with 1RM.

*** No, use a 1RM. The idea about breaking form is a poor excuse. Your 1RM can be what can be done without breaking form.

2) How do you fit the program into a week ? My first thought was 2 on 1 off then 3 on 1 off with the first ME work on the first day of the week then the second ME day bracketed by traditional CrossFit WOD's.

*** There are lots of combinations. One might be your first ME day on Mon., a WOD on Tues., Wed. off, Thursday a WOD, Friday 2nd ME day, Saturday a WOD, and then Sunday off.

3) How many reps is too few and how much weight is too heavy to use for the CrossFit metcons ?

*** I don't have a specific answer to this. My preference would not be any WODS using less than 9 reps or so per resistance movement. I would refer you back to the CF elite athlete's thoughts I posted above.

Weight, I'm thinking in terms of percentages.
Your CrossFit athlete suggested 115 lb thrusters but what should a trainee's max be on a particular overhead lift be to use that weight ?
Would you base it off a 1RM strict press, push press or thruster ?

***If you would have a hard time doing 9ish of those thrusters in a row I would say the load was too heavy for you.


4) Any advice on how to structure the time domains of the WOD's in terms of how long to make each WOD based on the day of the cycle ?

I think one would not want to put the longest WOD of the training week right before ME day.

** As the CF elite athlete mentioned, try to make the WOD performed before the ME day not directly interfere with the ME day. Beyond that, I would not be overly concerned.
Please read my replies in bold above.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2010, 09:37 PM   #10
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Conjugate CF article

To clarify, the purpose of the WODs with my program is to build strength endurance and general endurance relative to CrossFit's demands. That is their point, not to stress the athlete in such a way as to build any absolute strength.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Conjugate Method and WODs Troy Becker Fitness 94 12-07-2010 02:03 PM
Using the Long-Conjugate Model / Switching Focus Justin McCallon Fitness 6 05-13-2009 06:41 PM
My First Article Chris Drewry Community 3 05-11-2008 02:02 AM
Conjugate Periodization John Yavero Starting 30 06-26-2007 05:33 PM
I liked this article Barry Cooper Nutrition 1 11-17-2003 03:28 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.