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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-20-2010, 09:23 AM   #21
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Owen Bird View Post
How broad is broad? Time can be pretty enormous, even in the context of exercise - I know guys who do 24hr bike competitions. There has to be a cutoff at some point.

I think the events were picked out of a hopper to ensure randomisation. I don't know what the mix of events in the hopper was like, but this could account for some skewed-ness.

Of the "1 rep max" events, how many were over in one lift? I don't think any were. It was repeated work across a longer time. Not continuous work by any stretch of the imagination, but more than the 1-hit workout you make it sound like.

I would also argue that a high 1 rep max is more useful than massive endurance in the real world. Even if we ignore the impact of higher strength on your other sporting performances, I have lifted heavy stuff in the course of my life in a bunch of occaisions - Trail building, manual labour, dropped motorbikes, etc. I have yet to need to run any distance, let alone over 2 miles, for any reason except training and exercise.

This stuff can turn into a huge discussion if you focus on the minutae, I don't expect that the tagline was created with the intention of this kind of scrutiny.
I think that this is the strength bias that CF is morphing toward. I can state unevqivicably that adequate to good aerobic endurance has aided me on 24+ physical evolutions more than more 1rm strength. I've done them in 1/2 marathon shape, strong shape, and blended shape, blended was best followed by 1/2. 1RM to 1/2 marathon seems like a good broad fitness to me.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:32 AM   #22
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

I think for most people starting CF, there should be a strength biased (the exception would be already strong individuals, which are rare) and once you have gotten past this point (having the strength to do all named wods as RX'd) then it becomes a matter of personal preference.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:51 AM   #23
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
I think for most people starting CF, there should be a strength biased (the exception would be already strong individuals, which are rare) and once you have gotten past this point (having the strength to do all named wods as RX'd) then it becomes a matter of personal preference.
What are your goals I can see many examples where improved work capacity, conditioning strength-endurance, whatever you want to call it as a goal might mean scaling WODs but not biasing toward strength.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:01 AM   #24
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

My goals are strength biased, but I think the strength to complete the WOD's as RX'd (named, because they are better bench mark, stuff like "King Kong" comes up) is the base level of strength for CFers. If that is all the strength you want, fine, I'm not going to argue. But I think until then, dedicated strength work (not solely strength work) should be a part of your program. Once you get there, than where ever you goals lead you.

CFFB, CFWF, CFSB, etc. Doing 35 30 times doesn't get you much closer to 65 for 1.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:06 AM   #25
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
My goals are strength biased, but I think the strength to complete the WOD's as RX'd (named, because they are better bench mark, stuff like "King Kong" comes up) is the base level of strength for CFers. If that is all the strength you want, fine, I'm not going to argue. But I think until then, dedicated strength work (not solely strength work) should be a part of your program. Once you get there, than where ever you goals lead you.

CFFB, CFWF, CFSB, etc. Doing 35 30 times doesn't get you much closer to 65 for 1.
CFSB is an intermediate program. Around here lately, strength is the hammer and severything looks like a nail. A pure heavyweight powerlifter is likely to have a sucky Helen time, never mind a 5K. But his CFT would be stellar. My fitness needs more often resemble "Helen"
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:11 AM   #26
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

I'm not talking about powerlifting level strength. Or even weightlifter. I'm talking about the strength necessary to perform the named workouts as RX'd. I don't think thats an incredibly high level of strength.

I also mentioned programs that include a metcon as opposed to 5X5 or Starting strength. I don't think you need to do nothing but strength to get to this level, but you do need to focus on it.

If you can't pull one guy on to the boat, no amount of endurance will help.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:18 AM   #27
Renee Lee
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
CFSB is an intermediate program. Around here lately, strength is the hammer and severything looks like a nail. A pure heavyweight powerlifter is likely to have a sucky Helen time, never mind a 5K. But his CFT would be stellar. My fitness needs more often resemble "Helen"
iirc, it's an intermediate CROSSFITTER program, not an intermediate weightlifting program...which are two completely different things
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:39 AM   #28
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Renee Lee View Post
iirc, it's an intermediate CROSSFITTER program, not an intermediate weightlifting program...which are two completely different things
I agree with this. Actually, I don't disagree with anything Jamie says either, except I don't believe that everyone needs to be strong enough to do the WODs as rxed before they do them. I think endurance is equally important as strength (there, I said it) when one talks about useful fitness.

Jamie,
Yeah, I have to be strong enough to pull them onto the boat But I also have to be an enduring enough swimmer to get there myself.

Developing the gray area of fitness is why I like CF. I believe in increasing work capacity across BROAD time and modal demands. Again from a 1RM to a 1/2 marathon. Increasing strength, I guess helps my endurance, but improving endurance helps me work on my strength longer.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:08 PM   #29
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the Games ('09) actually tested performance over a fairly long time domain: two days. If the same athletes had performed the same workouts over the course of a month or so, with the ability to rest and recover fully in between, it's quite likely that their scores on many of them would have improved, and entirely possible that the standings would have changed.

Recovery ability is part of fitness, too.

Katherine
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:22 PM   #30
Tom Seryak
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Re: Is Crossfit right about fitness?

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the Games ('09) actually tested performance over a fairly long time domain: two days. If the same athletes had performed the same workouts over the course of a month or so, with the ability to rest and recover fully in between, it's quite likely that their scores on many of them would have improved, and entirely possible that the standings would have changed.

Recovery ability is part of fitness, too.

Katherine
that's a fantastic point!
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