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Old 03-12-2008, 01:19 PM   #11
Michael Howard
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

Thanks for the comments!

Of course my original question about the 'same thing three days in a row' was inaccurate. Noticing the fact that the WOD's change, the scaling of the WODs, and that it is not about doing near max lifts every day, this is starting to make more sense.
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:55 AM   #12
Alex J. Perez
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

I remember noticing myself in the mirror a long time ago, after training like this for about 3 months. I noticed I started to look like the anatomical man. I said it as a joke at the time, but I started to think about it. Too many people over train areas for strength but taking the aesthetic route. They start to become physically disproportionate and functionally disproportionate and the body doesnt actually look "good"(besides the fact that it isnt functional nor strong).

When you train for performance, you gain performance and appearance. When you train for appearance you gain appearance. Muscle that are worked the way they are meant to, like the way we train, develop themselves beautifully and proportionally.

This is nothing had hasnt been said by Glassman and the thousands of Crossfitters around.
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:38 AM   #13
Grace Patenaude
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

Michael,

Coming from a mix fitness background (H.S. - basketball, track & field and ballet / college - novice BB only 1 competition - Lee Lebrada Beach Extravaganza in Galveston, 1988 / post grad - endurance sports), I am compelled to say that CROSSFIT is "IT". After lurking for almost a year, I adopted CFT and it's nutritional philosophies as my only program (aside from teaching indoor cycling) beginning January 2008. Upperbody strength and muscular development has dramatically improved in just 2.5 months.

I had the same concern last year but, as usual, the replies are always great and very useful to us, newbies.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:01 AM   #14
Steven Low
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

Compared to a good full body strenght routine it doesn't (like Starting Strength). But it generally beats out splits anyday any time (aka your now traditional BB routine).
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:08 AM   #15
Laura Kurth
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

I used to do regular weightlifting (5x5, 3x12) that sort of thing, and cardio on the side and I never managed to gain a pound. I've been doing crossfit now for awhile and have gained about 4# (i assume muscle). I am much stronger than I ever was also! I used to struggle with 75# on the bench press but now that is easy for me, even though I rarely bench and used to do so 2x a week.

Crossfit works!
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:10 AM   #16
Laura Kurth
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

I should add that i have not been consuming more calories..which would be the obvious reason for gaining weight, i have always eaten approximately 2000 calories per day... just now it is more 'zone' 80+ grams of fat per day. (bw 108lbs)
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:25 PM   #17
Grace Patenaude
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
But it generally beats out splits anyday any time (aka your now traditional BB routine).
I second that, Steve!
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:36 PM   #18
Jared Ashley
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Howard View Post
But I have a big, lingering concern. Most weightlifting gurus will tell you to rest any muscle group for a day or more after a session (Ian King, for example, who advocates between 3 and 4 sessions a week all focusing on different areas of the body/movements). As I understand it, they all point to the importance of rest for developing strength and mass.

My question is - how can a Crossfitter gain in muscle mass and strength when they follow the WOD??? They are doing the same exercise, 3 days consecutively. I understand that short intense work releases HGH naturally, but how can this outweigh the continued wear on the muscles after 3 days of work, and then the single day of rest before another 3 day session?? This seems like (1) working harder than necessary, (2) risking overuse injuries and (3) causing inflammation.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this,

Mike
Mike,

The 2-3 day rest period is important if you're doing typical BB 3-day split type workouts because of how much you are fatiguing the muscle... while crossfit metcon-type workout will exhaust you and bring you to muscle failure, it will typically not be within a few reps... the lighter loading makes a big difference. With BB workouts, I would be sore for 2 days, sometimes more. With crossfit I'm sore for maybe 1 day, and not nearly as much so. This, plus the fact that the next workout is NOT the same means you can hit it hard again the next day.

Crossfit does have WOD's where you do pure stregnth work, like 5x3 back squats or 10x1 deadlifts... those require more recovery, but the program is designed such that you'd never do heavy squats like that twice in a row... you might do heavy squats and then the next day have to do 200 air squats, but that's a very different mode and challenges a different system.

Regardless of the reasons WHY it works, the question is DOES IT WORK? And I have to say, yes it does. I added about 10 lbs via BB workouts, and since starting crossfit I haven't added more, but I also haven't lost any. My goal is not to gain mass, and if it was I would simply need to eat more... if I wanted to gain A LOT of mass I'd need to incorporate more heavy lifting via starting strength or a similar program. But, what I have gained is tremendous strength. in 5 months, my max squat has gone from 185 to 250, with deeper ROM and safer form. Deadlift from ~150 to 300! dead-hang pullups from 16 to 20. Pushups from 60 to 85. My mile time has dropped from 7:15 to 6:02. work capacity is nothing compared to some of the CF monsters out there but it's through the roof vs. the old me. And, I am lean and muscular as hell even without perfect diet, MUCH more so that before, and in a much more balanced manner. My legs and back in particular have really changed (both are often de-emphasized or improperly worked in many routines).

As others have said, you just have to try it, for at least 1 month, preferably longer. push to your limits and let the results do the talking. If you don't like it you won't have lost much, but I'm pretty confident you'll be happy.
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:22 PM   #19
Tim Morrison
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

Yeah, there are hyped statements in the crossfit site principles that are problematic, this being one of them.
A trainee with strength/power/endocrine deficit will probably increase muscle mass on the crossfit program as Rx'd..but a relatively balanced trainee (strength,endurance, power)....who's intention is purely hypertrophy, would benefit immeasurably more from Ian King type programming.
Not sure many in crossfit would disagree as muscle mass objectives are not their goal.
Across-the-board performance capacity is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Howard View Post
I admire a lot about Crossfit - the focus on functional strength, the whole body movements - and I've been reading this board and watching the lecture clips for a little while now.

But I have a big, lingering concern. Most weightlifting gurus will tell you to rest any muscle group for a day or more after a session (Ian King, for example, who advocates between 3 and 4 sessions a week all focusing on different areas of the body/movements). As I understand it, they all point to the importance of rest for developing strength and mass.

My question is - how can a Crossfitter gain in muscle mass and strength when they follow the WOD??? They are doing the same exercise, 3 days consecutively. I understand that short intense work releases HGH naturally, but how can this outweigh the continued wear on the muscles after 3 days of work, and then the single day of rest before another 3 day session?? This seems like (1) working harder than necessary, (2) risking overuse injuries and (3) causing inflammation.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this,

Mike
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:35 AM   #20
David Kirk
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Re: How can Coach say that crossfitting develops more muscle than trad' weightlifting

I too would have to second, third and fourth much of what I've read here. The one thing I would say, is that if you look at the logs that people post and follow many of the threads you will see that there are people making huge gains. As the other crossfitters have said, it is about intention and what your goals are; the fitness here is multi dimensional.

I personally have experienced tremendous improvement to my overall fitness: Speed has increased; strength has increased; balance has increased...I've been crossfitting for about 4 - 6 weeks now (I need to get much better at tracking my work outs so I'm not really sure when I started, more importantly I did the WOD today!)

This is a great community with lots of very helpful folks who are living proof that as a training modality Crossfit WODs are very effective. I found when I tried doing the traditional weight lifting program, I had a hard time staying consistent, with the WODs, you just have to put your shoes on (if you want) and push some stuff, pull some stuff, throw some stuff, run around and repeat. From my perspective, the gains have been amazing.

Regards,
David
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