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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 12-09-2007, 08:14 AM   #21
Francisco Galarce Morales
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

When I got here I clicked around and a few days later I tried elizabeth.. (altought technicly not really correct) but I scaled directly.. I'm not stupid.. I can't lift the way it's in the vid's... a few days later I came across an article and a vid about scaling and thought "see, I'm not lazy"

I'm all for the intensity and puking sensation etc... but it's relative to the person doing the excersise.. I try to do the wod's as best as I can and I know I can't do the time or reps or weights they use in the vids but as long as my t-shirt is drenched in sweet and I get trouble with breathing normally I'm happy. And if I feel a pain or something I stop.. no sense in injuring yourself... tommorow there is another day and another work out

I got a few wod like things I made up for my jitsu class last year... I've got a guy who can do it in less then 8 minutes and a few guys who do it in 10 or 12 minutes... they all go all out and all are death tired at the end of it... that's my goal.. not the time it self...

And the most important thing is... I feel great.. I feel fysically beter than I have done in a long time...
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:11 AM   #22
Jeff Martin
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

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Originally Posted by Kirez Reynolds View Post

In terms of exercise methodology, the value of CF lies largely in its intensity.
Kirez,
I would first take exception to this statement. I believe the value of CrossFit is largely in the movements. Teaching kids or the elderly we certainly don't emphasize intensity, and we get fantastic results from those two populations. Teaching people to move better is our job. As we ramp up intensity we teach them to move well under duress.

A beginner coming to our box for the first time is interviewed regarding health concerns. The new member is given 5 privates lessons to go over the 9 basic movements. We run new clients through a series of 5 workouts that are mandatory for every new member. The intro classes are designed around a single movment paired with a traditional cardio movement. (Running and squats, rowing and presses) During the 5 intro classes a trainer is assigned to the new client and works specifically with them. Their job is to work on the movment with the client, focusing on range of motion and to make sure the client is working at a pace that does not put them into to much duress. My instructions to our trainers regarding the 6th class are "6th class: Introduce them to class WOD. Put them in proper group, Pack, puppies, or buttercups (New clients entering the class WOD should NEVER be allowed to jump straight to the Big Dawgs no matter your assessment of their fitness level)." In all of our large classes we have a trainer specifically assigned to new clients. The trainers job is to remind the client that the clock is secondary and the movement is primary. If the new client is pushing to hard they will step in.
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:23 PM   #23
Lenora Galitz-Pfeffer
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

As a newbie, I'm glad you asked this question and that you are getting replys that encourage the concern. It is far better to do that than to not emphasize enough that we have to do a scaled down workout. We are the best experts in how our body feels. I've read enough posts about injuries and serious forms of soreness and fatigue to not get ahead of myself. I was doing a program for 3 years with just weights and I forgot what soreness really was till I started cf 3 weeks ago. The experienced members remind me to pace myself and keep my form strict. It's great to have a community where we look out for eachother. Sometimes, I get transition information from substitutions suggested on this website. Someone recently posted, "scale, scale, scale." That should almost be the refrain for each of our posts on this thread. Welcome, and go forth, wisely.
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:50 PM   #24
Leslie Powell
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

The one thing that nags at me sometimes is this quote from the Start Here section on this site: "We are developing supplementary workouts designed to introduce our stable of basic movements building towards the capacity to productively follow the WOD with substitutions, and will post that material here soon."

(I have posted a question about this once before...it's been up for a while now.)

I guess anything's possible, but reading that I get the sense that there was once a plan to help newbies ramp up, and that this never quite materialized. It would be nice to have this material, though I don't see it as absolutely necessary.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:45 PM   #25
Susie Rosenberg
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

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Originally Posted by Leslie Powell View Post
The one thing that nags at me sometimes is this quote from the Start Here section on this site: "We are developing supplementary workouts designed to introduce our stable of basic movements building towards the capacity to productively follow the WOD with substitutions, and will post that material here soon."

(I have posted a question about this once before...it's been up for a while now.)

I guess anything's possible, but reading that I get the sense that there was once a plan to help newbies ramp up, and that this never quite materialized. It would be nice to have this material, though I don't see it as absolutely necessary.
I have noticed that gap as well. It's wonderful to be referred to BrandX for scaled workouts, and I did follow along with those for a while when I began, but it *is* missing from the main site. And I do see it as absolutely necessary. If doing the WODs "as Rx'd" is like the X on the map that says "YOU ARE HERE", we surely need a road map detailing the "long, slow on-ramp" to intensity. How to get "there" from "here." We need to know how to scale and sub. The metamessage of that unfulfilled promise is that it's not important.

It is important, and more so the faster Crossfit grows and the wider the pool of folks participating. It's a fundamentals issue.

Susie
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:53 PM   #26
Lenora Galitz-Pfeffer
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

Amen Susie! Thanks for helping me scale and ramp up safely.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:41 AM   #27
Justin Algera
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

What you are seeing is pretty much the opposite of everything I know and have learned about crossfit since being introduced 2+ years ago. Recovery, rest, easing into the program, etc are all preached (in my experience anyways) pretty much ad nauseum. Anyone going to any cert will notice this immediately and is probably one of the most important tenants of the crossfit program.

And although I know its not available for some, as crossfit continues to grow, there are more and more affiliates to go to. I would suggest anyone that is new and just getting into it, needs to get to an affiliate to get hands on training with experienced trainers. Sure the website is great and gives a plethora of information, but nothing replaces the information you will gain by just going to an affiliate and getting some training from trainers who have been to 1,2,3 or more certs and have that experience, not to mention some of the members of those respective boxes whose opinions and experiences can help as well..

Last edited by Justin Algera : 12-11-2007 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:26 PM   #28
Tim Morrison
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

to me the 'criticism' isn't the intensity level of any one workout (we're assuming the skills are adequate)...its that the 3on 1off is a recipe for real CNS burnout....(that'd be 22 balls-out training every month)....which most sport' training black-box results will show debilitating performance degradation. Check out how many regular crossfitters 3 years ago are still posting today...(who've done it continually or...even scaled back the crossfit model every month or two ).
I really enjoy crossfit style workouts but have developed a 6 day cycle in which various crossfit style workouts are used with other workouts of various intensity...the result being the crossfit numbers/data are significantly better than when doing them 3 on 1 off.

Last edited by Tim Morrison : 12-11-2007 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:39 PM   #29
Steven Low
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

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Originally Posted by Tim Morrison View Post
to me the 'criticism' isn't the intensity level of any one workout (we're assuming the skills are adequate)...its that the 3on 1off is a recipe for real CNS burnout....(that'd be 22 balls-out training every month)....which most sport' training black-box results will show debilitating performance degradation. Check out how many regular crossfitters 3 years ago are still posting today...(who've done it continually or...even scaled back the crossfit model every month or two ).
I really enjoy crossfit style workouts but have developed a 6 day cycle in which various crossfit style workouts are used with other workouts of various intensity...the result being the crossfit numbers/data are significantly better than when doing them 3 on 1 off.
Posting isn't a good indicator of anything.

If you've read the CF stuff on fitness you'd know that the 3/1 schedule has represented one of the best frequencies attainable (highest frequency = quickest adaption) *in conjunction* with optimal sleep and diet. If you're burning out pretty fast, it's probably your sleep and diet are a bit off.

The workouts, specifically, are really scheduled (well, not randomized) to the point where you're lifting heavy or doing lots of CNS intensive work that you should burn out fast either. Of course, rest weeks are always a good thing and that's why a lot of people take them.. and why most people should build them in. That's probably one of the only points I would emphasize more. The work capacity definitely CAN be built up to, although for most it will take a fair amount of time to do it (if they have no idea what they are doing). If you have somewhat of an idea, it shouldn't be too hard to do it, especially in conjunction with any sport specific training.

Last edited by Steven Low : 12-11-2007 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:49 PM   #30
Tim Morrison
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Re: CRITICISM: More focus on transition to CF needed?

Respectfully....but in IMHO, when it comes to programming maximal intensity work I don't think the 3 on 1 off is advisable in terms of long term performance enhancement....even if nutritional intake and sleep are perfect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Posting isn't a good indicator of anything.

If you've read the CF stuff on fitness you'd know that the 3/1 schedule has represented one of the best frequencies attainable (highest frequency = quickest adaption) *in conjunction* with optimal sleep and diet. If you're burning out pretty fast, it's probably your sleep and diet are a bit off.

The workouts, specifically, are really scheduled (well, not randomized) to the point where you're lifting heavy or doing lots of CNS intensive work that you should burn out fast either. Of course, rest weeks are always a good thing and that's why a lot of people take them.. and why most people should build them in. That's probably one of the only points I would emphasize more. The work capacity definitely CAN be built up to, although for most it will take a fair amount of time to do it (if they have no idea what they are doing). If you have somewhat of an idea, it shouldn't be too hard to do it, especially in conjunction with any sport specific training.
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