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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 12-26-2008, 04:42 PM   #1
Jeremy Edgerly
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Limits

After seeing our first 2 minute Fran. What do "we" think is the human limitations for Crossfitters? I personally don't think that we'll see a 1:29 Fran for example. Usain Bolt smashed the world record on the 100 meters but only took off hundredths of a second. 100 mph for a pitcher used to be a rarity, but now every team has a guy that throws 100. I guess using "standard" W.O.Ds what in theory do we think is possible or not possible?
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Old 12-26-2008, 05:24 PM   #2
Júlíus Magnússon
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Re: Limits

They had a video on the main site a couple of months back where they tested the theoretical top Fran time.

They used Dutch as an example, doing unweighted thrusters and unbroken butterfly kips. What was his time? 1:36 or something?
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:01 PM   #3
Andrew H. Meador
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Re: Limits

A 1 minute Fran is possible with some of the range of motion problems that are becoming prevalent.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:18 PM   #4
Jared Ashley
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Re: Limits

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Originally Posted by Júlíus Magnússon View Post
They had a video on the main site a couple of months back where they tested the theoretical top Fran time.

They used Dutch as an example, doing unweighted thrusters and unbroken butterfly kips. What was his time? 1:36 or something?
Yeah, somewhere around 1:30 anyway. And in the same video there was another guy doing Fran with unweighted thrusters and "unweighted pullups" (basically he took a peice of PVC and moved it up and down in a pullup motion while standing). As I recall, he actually took a few seconds longer than Dutch.

At the end of the video they postulated that the theoretical minimum Fran time was somewhere around 1:30, given an athlete with the capacity to move 95 lbs at the same rate that Dutch could move a PVC pipe.

If "Fran" were somehow to become a highly competitive olympic event, we would eventually see an asymptotic progression, as with all other events. Eventually you would even start to see individuals who are genetically superior at "fran" (example: somebody who's 5'2" is going to have a faster potential time because they don't have to move the bar as far, limiting both distance travelled and total work, vs. someone who is 6'2").

Perhaps a combination of a short person with incredible capacity and a further refinment of the butterfly kip and a super-efficient thruster movement could reduce the time to near or even below Dutch's theoretical minimum, but likley not that far. The idea of somehow reducing it to 1 minute seems impossible.

Side note: I remember Dutch saying at the end something to the effect of "you know, that kind of sucked! even though the thrusters were unweighted that felt almost as crappy as a real fran!"
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:24 PM   #5
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Limits

Good to know as I'm not 5'2" even. However work capacity and an efficient BFK ain't there yet. Thrusters aren't much of a problem, but I would need to get them fast like tabata squats or low rep burpees.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:42 PM   #6
Michael Bell
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Re: Limits

Keeping in mind that exercise science is a relatively new field in research and that there is an increasing amount of literature that says it's ok for children as young as 6 to train with weights, I think that records in nearly all athletic events will fall in the near future.

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/REC/index.shtml (wfs). Here is a list of records that were broken at the Beijing Olympics alone. Swimming, athletics, and weightlifting were the most prevalent.

I'd be willing to bet that picking someone with great genetics coupled with the right nutrition, supplements, training, and coaching will eventually be able to break a 9.0 second 100m.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:11 AM   #7
Rafe Kelley
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Re: Limits

When appealing to olympic sport you have to consider the aspect of performance enhancing drugs. I am not the type who simple assumes that all the records are illegitimate but there is fair chance on any given record that it wouldn't or maybe even couldn't be were it is with with out performance enhancing drugs. If pharmeceuticals are what is driving the breaking of records then the question is how far can it be pushed while staying ahead of the testers or will people eventually stop testing. A genetically modified sprinter trained form birth and hopped up on every form of performance enhancer possible could bust 9.0 in the hundred sure, could a natural human, I doubt it I am not entirely sure that any of the breakings of 10.00 flat are legitimate, I am hopefull some are but certainly not confident.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:03 AM   #8
Adam Jamieson
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Re: Limits

Nobody thought is was possible to break a 4 minute mile either. We don't even know what we ourselves are capable of and we as a race keep breaking our own records that we've deemed "impossibe" time and time again. The question should be...

Who's going to be the first to break the 1:30 barrier and get the honors worthy of being legendary?

...get some
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:17 AM   #9
Alex Europa
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Re: Limits

Yes, but there is a significant difference....it was possible (even then) to break down the mile into significantly smaller parts (200s, 400s, whatever) and shatter the 4-minute barrier. The same cannot be said of the 1:30 "Fran" barrier. You could take Speal, OPT, and Dutch have them each do an unweighted round, and it would still be right around 1:30...for the simple fact of cyclic rate. We could probably do the same thing with the mile now, reduce it down to an 8 x 200 relay or something similar to see how fast is "humanly" possible (however improbable). That would be a better measure than the completely arbitrary 4 minute mile...a mark set because people thought a runner's heart would explode or some such nonsense.

If the thought of breaking 1:30 motivates you, definitely get some...I'm not one to poop on someone's dreams. As an aside, I'll be moving to Oahu sometime mid-year...looking forward to meeting up with all of you out there!

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Last edited by Alex Europa; 12-29-2008 at 08:20 AM..
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:51 AM   #10
Tom Jones Jr
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Re: Limits

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Originally Posted by Andrew H. Meador View Post
A 1 minute Fran is possible with some of the range of motion problems that are becoming prevalent.
What do you mean by this? I saw video's of those two guys doing sub-2 minute Frans and the range of motion on the pull-ups were almost non-existant, if i remember correctly. Thrusting 95lbs and pull-ups 45 times in under 2 minutes is a formidable achievment don't get me wrong, but i don't understand how it is a great achievment if the ROM on the pull-ups is so incredibly limited. I don't care if kipping is regarded as a tolerated cheat version.

But i guess if the chin is over the bar then it's all fair game.
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