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Old 07-26-2011, 07:12 PM   #1
Matt Haxmeier
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Running Speed Article

Just thought I'd share an interesting article I ran across (pun intended) on sprinting speed.

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...ence-sprinting (WFS)

Apparently Usain Bolt's incredible speed is due in part to his stride length + the greater pressure being applied to the ground in a shorter duration than an average sprinter. i.e. Not increased turnover as was previously thought.

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Old 07-27-2011, 12:09 AM   #2
Brandon Sligh
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Re: Running Speed Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Haxmeier View Post
Just thought I'd share an interesting article I ran across (pun intended) on sprinting speed.

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...ence-sprinting (WFS)

Apparently Usain Bolt's incredible speed is due in part to his stride length + the greater pressure being applied to the ground in a shorter duration than an average sprinter. i.e. Not increased turnover as was previously thought.

As a track and field athlete myself, the fact that this article states everyone's turnover is the same is not true at all. Turnover can be improving with drills and many other things. His stride length and pressure is great, yes, but this is not all that makes him fast. His body mechanics and how he runs is technically sound. Usain also is a very relaxed runner and in track, the most relaxed tends to win most of the time.

Also, it is not that he is just that much faster than everyone else, it is that he decelerates slower than the other competitors. Top end speed can only be held for a couple of seconds. After this, runners begin to decelerate. It just does not look like this because he is blowing away the competition.

In the end, the one who decelerates the slowest from their top end speed is the winner of a race.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:37 AM   #3
Kent Newland
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Re: Running Speed Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Haxmeier View Post
Just thought I'd share an interesting article I ran across (pun intended) on sprinting speed.

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/...ence-sprinting (WFS)

Apparently Usain Bolt's incredible speed is due in part to his stride length + the greater pressure being applied to the ground in a shorter duration than an average sprinter. i.e. Not increased turnover as was previously thought.

Thanks for that. I'm reading all I can find on speed right now.

Kent
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:23 AM   #4
Shane Skowron
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Re: Running Speed Article

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Originally Posted by Brandon Sligh View Post
As a track and field athlete myself, the fact that this article states everyone's turnover is the same is not true at all. Turnover can be improving with drills and many other things.
So do you have something to back this up?


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In the end, the one who decelerates the slowest from their top end speed is the winner of a race.
Not exactly...
Maybe if you have two athletes with the exact same top speed.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:43 AM   #5
Brandon Sligh
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Re: Running Speed Article

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
So do you have something to back this up?




Not exactly...
Maybe if you have two athletes with the exact same top speed.
Yes I do, from personal experience is one thing. I used to run the 100m dash freshmen-junior year in highschool. However, senior year until now, I am not as good in it as I used to be. Since I was training more for the 400m my senior year in highschool, I lost my turnover in that race. When I would get out the blocks and hit the 30m mark, everyone would leave me because as I left my drive phase, everyone would turn over faster and more efficiently than I could.

Here is a little article I have found http://www.livestrong.com/article/43...ning-turnover/ (article is safe, PG, etc)

Not much but it proves that you can improve your turnover and that not everyone has the same one that is ridiculous.


Now you also said it is not true and if two people have the same top speed it is a tie. Ummmm sorry to burst your bobble, but this is not true. If two people came out the blocks the exact same time with the same drive phase for the first 30-35m (in a 100m race), we would see who wins in the pull phase. The pull phase is after the drive phase and lasts for the rest of the race. At around the 50-60m mark, or sometimes sooner, top speed is achieved and then an athlete tries to maintain it. Whoever decelerates the slowest from their top speed wins.

I have been running track about to start my 7th year, I know everything about my sport. If you want evidence I will provide it. As a runner, I know the rules of running, how the body works, etc. So ultimately, two people with the same top speed will not tie. Our body is not a car it has mechanics that take time to develop in order to improve oneself.
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Last edited by Brandon Sligh : 07-27-2011 at 07:48 AM. Reason: Had to place more information
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:47 AM   #6
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Re: Running Speed Article

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Maybe if you have two athletes with the exact same top speed.
Add this with the information in my previous post: http://track.smesports.org/coach-blo...-need-to-know/ ( link is safe, PG, etc).

If you want more links and articles I can keep going and provide tons. Also, this applies to the 200m dash as well and actually every race in track and field where an athlete hits a top speed and decelerates. Distance runners only experience this usually at the end of their race because this is the only time they are going top speed.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:01 AM   #7
Matt Haxmeier
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Re: Running Speed Article

Brandon, that's the whole point of the article. Your personal experience (and how I was coached in track) and the article you linked is not supported by the findings of the study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11053354 (WFS)

It's entirely possible that your drills for improving turnover actually improve the force production per second at the ground. Or more accurately "the stance phase limit to running speed is imposed not by the maximum forces that the limbs can apply to the ground but rather by the minimum time needed to apply the large, mass-specific forces necessary" -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20093666 (WFS)

Last edited by Matt Haxmeier : 07-27-2011 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:11 AM   #8
Brandon Sligh
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Re: Running Speed Article

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Originally Posted by Matt Haxmeier View Post
Brandon, that's the whole point of the article. Your personal experience (and how I was coached in track) and the article you linked is not supported by the findings of the study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11053354 (WFS)

It's entirely possible that your drills for improving turnover actually improve the force production at the ground.
Your article states that force is involved in runner, which is true. Now you are going to tell me that each runner manages to swing their leg into position at the exact same amount of time? So everyone's stride length and stride efficiency is the same is what you are saying? Because this makes no sense, nor does the article. This is like saying runners do not tend to ground during a race and that everyone takes the same amount of time to pick their leg up off the floor. How is that even possible let's be realistic.

Force plays a great role yes but all runners having same reaction with the floor in a race? You can watch a race and see that this is not true.

How were you coached in track then?
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:32 AM   #9
Shane Skowron
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Re: Running Speed Article

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Originally Posted by Brandon Sligh View Post
Your article states that force is involved in runner, which is true. Now you are going to tell me that each runner manages to swing their leg into position at the exact same amount of time? So everyone's stride length and stride efficiency is the same is what you are saying?
No that's not at all what the article was saying. You should read it again. It says that stride length is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Sligh View Post
Here is a little article I have found http://www.livestrong.com/article/43...ning-turnover/ (article is safe, PG, etc)
If you really knew everything there is to know about your sport as you claim, you would know that article is a pile of rubbish. It says that one should lose weight so that one uses less oxygen when running. Seriously, can you find something that's actually credible?


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Originally Posted by Brandon Sligh View Post
Now you also said it is not true and if two people have the same top speed it is a tie. Ummmm sorry to burst your bobble, but this is not true. If two people came out the blocks the exact same time with the same drive phase for the first 30-35m (in a 100m race), we would see who wins in the pull phase. The pull phase is after the drive phase and lasts for the rest of the race. At around the 50-60m mark, or sometimes sooner, top speed is achieved and then an athlete tries to maintain it. Whoever decelerates the slowest from their top speed wins.
You said "the one who decelerates the slowest from their top end speed is the winner of a race".

That's only true if you have two people of relatively equal ability. If you get someone who decelerates from their top end speed faster than another athlete, but that other athlete doesn't even approach 80% of the first athlete's top end speed, it won't matter. So making generalizations like this just doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Sligh View Post
So ultimately, two people with the same top speed will not tie.
Um, ok. Who said anything like that?


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Originally Posted by Brandon Sligh View Post
I have been running track about to start my 7th year, I know everything about my sport.
WHOA.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:56 AM   #10
Brandon Sligh
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Re: Running Speed Article

My focus was not on the oxygen part, I did not care anything about that and is not the reason I posted the article.

Obviously I was referring to two people at the same speed or around the same speed when saying who decelerates the slowest wins the race. Now you are just trying to be technical and are pointing out obvious facts that someone who is way faster than someone would win. I know this, this is not the point I was trying to make.

The fact that you said not if you have two athletes with the same top speed I assumed you meant tie, but I misunderstood your statement.



As for the article that was posted about usain: It says, "The amount of time to pick up a leg and put it down is very similar," he says. "It surprised us when we first figured it out."

So someone who grounds while running will have the same amount of time to pick up and put down a leg is what you are telling me? Yea because this makes sense... Yes force is increasing stride length and efficiency, but making this statement is ridiculous.

Book about turnover: http://books.google.com/books?id=47_...page&q&f=false (safe for kids, PG etc)

So this book just labels people's turnover rate because there is no way to improve it? It is just a stat that must mean nothing. I guess I should not even focus on turnover because it means NOTHING in the sprinting world? Makes no sense.
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