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Old 01-04-2007, 08:19 PM   #1
Peter Queen
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Since I have loved boxing and MA for many years and have participated in them as well, it would seem only natural, I guess, that my interest would eventually migrate towards Ultimate Fighting and the like. Besides, since that seems to be of great interest amongst my CF colleagues, that has also helped to further peak my interest. Don’t worry; my interest is only as a spectator. Otherwise this would be my future after the first match --> :rip: OK, now having said all of that I have a few questions and like my thread title stated I am still learning so forgive any stupid questions ahead of time. I happened to recently record and watched later the fight between Mark Hominick and George Gurgel, a great fight by the way. Anyway, I noticed that when Hominick kept taking Gurgel down with a leg sweep whenever Gurgel tried to do an axe kick or whatever, Hominick would wait for Gurgel to get back up. My question is this, are they not allowed to continue with pressing their attacks? Because I know for sure that if you hit the mat against Liddell you better be ready to receive a large order of fist sandwiches with some elbows on the side.:crutch00: So is it their weight class that has these restrictions, I am assuming that it is the light weight division. I am not exactly clear yet on what the weight limits are per division and I did not get a chance to record the actual beginning of the match where they announced what the weight class was. I could not even find it on the UFC.com web site…go figure.

OK my next question is, in watching the main event later of Chris Leben vs. Anderson Silva, the announcer said that Chris was a freestyle fighter. What exactly does that mean?:dunno: I thought that by nature MMA was freestyle….again please forgive any stupid questions.
In closing I would like to say that so far I am now a Rashad Evans and a Anderson Silva fan to name a few. :banana:
Oh yeah, I like Tito but Liddell is definately very skilled and a much better fighter, so I have to give Liddell his props.:biggrinthumb: Gotta love and respect the sport.

Thank you in advance for your indulgence.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:49 PM   #2
Becca Borawski
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That's great you're getting into the sport, Peter -- it's a lot of fun to watch and a lot more intricate that most people realize on first watching. I think it's very natural to have a lot of questions for a while!

1. Regarding Hominick and Gurgel -- I don't remember all the details of the fight, but the basic answer to your question is that the rules are the same for every weight division in the UFC, and no they are not prohibited from pursuing on the ground. Most likely it was due to the matching of the styles -- Hominick is mainly known as a kickboxer and Gurgel is known for his jiujitsu. Hominick probably felt much more comfortable fighting Gurgel on his feet, rather than going into Gurgel's world and risking being submitted. But takedowns score in Hominick's favor in the eyes of the judges, so that's why he would continue to do them once he discovered he could do it successfully.

2. Chris Leben originally trained at Team Quest and later at AMC Pankration, and he doesn't have a specific background in another martial art prior to training in MMA. Usually when they list a fighter's "style" it has to do with which sport he started in -- boxing, wrestling, etc. -- before he moved into MMA. So a college wrestler would be listed as a wrestler, a kickboxer moving over into MMA will be listed as a kickboxer, and so on. Both schools, Team Quest and AMC Pankration, train in all disciplines and Chris doesn't have a specialized background, so he's known as freestyle.

Hope that helps! Enjoy the fights!

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Old 01-05-2007, 07:38 AM   #3
Peter Queen
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Hominick is mainly known as a kickboxer and Gurgel is known for his jiujitsu. Hominick probably felt much more comfortable fighting Gurgel on his feet, rather than going into Gurgel's world and risking being submitted.

Oh yeah, Becca now that you mention it, Hominick did say afterwards that he did not want to go down but stay on his feet. That would explain the stunned look on Gurgel's face when he first hit the mat and realized that Hominick was holding back. The ref even did a hand gesture in the direction of Hominick that would suggest holding back every time Gurgel went down. So that was why I was wondering about the particulars of the light weight class. Also that would explain why Hominick received a large response of boos from the crowd when he was announced the winner. The fans can be very unforgiving at the first sign of weakness.
As far as Leben goes, your explanation would explain why he got the crap beat out of him in less than 2 minutes into the first round by Silva.

So now I am wondering how affective is the training of a purely schooled student in Team Quest and AMC as compared to someone coming in pre-trained and pre-disciplined from an actual MA school? I would assume that that particular individual would be a better fighter when all is said and done once they mix their pre-training with the new training they learn from one of the two schools. This is just my opinion based on my lack of understanding.

BTW: thanks Becca, you definitely helped to clear up my confusion to my first two questions. But I would still like to know, what exactly is the breakdown in weight ranges of the classes?


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Old 01-05-2007, 10:06 AM   #4
Becca Borawski
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As far as Team Quest and AMC Pankration, they most definitely are martial arts schools - they both have some amazing fighters and some world class instructors. I wouldn't take Chris Leben as the example of what a fighter coming from a well rounded background looks like. I think Chris just doesn't know how to punch straight or quickly. ;)

Different organizations have different weight classes - the UFC and the other sanctioned promotions in the States go by the following:

Lightweight: 146-155
Welterweight: 156-170
Middleweight: 171-185
Light Heavyweight: 186-205
Heavyweight: 205-265

Some promotions will have lighter or heavier classes, but those above are the ones you'll see in the UFC.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:45 AM   #5
Peter Queen
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“As far as Team Quest and AMC Pankration, they most definitely are martial arts schools - they both have some amazing fighters and some world class instructors.”

Once again, thanks very much Becca. Forgive me if I was being insulting about the 2 schools. I should not have been so judgmental based on Leben’s poor performance against Silva. It was a pretty pitiful and funny display however.:yikes: So from a new fan’s perspective it was not hard for me to fall into that line of thinking. I did not know the particular training programs involved within. At least now I have a better perspective.

I found it amussing when Leben said before the fight how he had a surprise for Silva. I did not think that the surprise would be an early victory for Silva however. Actually, now based on your fine explanation, I think that those types of schools are doing a great thing because it gives people who did not come up in a traditional styled school to compete. My background is from one of the more traditional schools and I remember that it was really hard to get into most of the competitions if you were not from a sanctioned or recognized system in someway. So the so called “Powers that be” might invite a school to a competition but only as an exhibition performance if they were lucky. They were not allowed to fight for an actual trophy. Things were different back in the day.
Thanks again Becca. As I continue to read the post in the future on the UFC and other organizations, I will have a little bit more of a clue.

Oh yeah, thanks also for the weight range breakdown.:highfive:

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Old 01-05-2007, 01:09 PM   #6
Jeffrey Crawford
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although leben did get pounded on by anderson silva, To call his perfromance weak, would also be suggesting that richs performance was weak, when the fact is anderson is that good. Leben also lacks the world class fighting experience that anderson holds. I have a lot of respect for chris, He might not be the most technical fighter, But he has heart and you can't teach that.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:38 PM   #7
Becca Borawski
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Chris has had much better showings than that fight against Silva and he was one of the fighters coming up out of Team Quest who Randy Couture spoke very highly of. Fighting Anderson Silva was a particularly bad matchup for Chris, one which personally, I didn't see him ever having a decent shot at winning. Some fighters continue to grow throughout their careers, some do well in the beginning but plateau while their peers continue to improve themselves. I think Chris is on the verge of proving which one he is.
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:29 PM   #8
Peter Queen
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“To call his perfromance weak, would also be suggesting that richs performance was weak,…”

Point well taken Jeffrey, but on the contrary, I have respect for anybody who is qualified enough to go inside the octagon. But like Becca mentioned, Leben’s style was not comparable to Silva’s. With a 15 to 3 win record that Leben holds, he definitely knows his stuff. But again, it becomes interesting in trying to understand exactly how the managers and promoters put certain people together.


“I think Chris is on the verge of proving which one he is.”

You made a good point Becca about some fighters being able to adapt to their circumstances and some get lost in the shuffle. And I feel like you, that Chris might be at the crossroads. In retro spec I sort of felt that Tito was rushing to get back at the title while Liddell was still holding it. Who knows, maybe someday he will regain the title, but it will probably be after Liddell retires. At 37, Liddell does not seem to be showing any signs of slowing down anytime soon though.
It’s getting real interesting now as the sport continues to grow.
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:49 AM   #9
Rick West
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I've been watching since Gracie submitted Shamrock. Moving from traditional MA to MMA can be a major shock. Tolorance to pain and big cardio are required. Tech can be taught, heart and fighting spirit can be learned but not taught.
Once an advantage is had, the fight can be over very fast. A quick KO only shows that somebody was a little slow on the draw. JMHO

Ricisan
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