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Old 01-09-2006, 08:57 AM   #1
Garrett Smith
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This article is from www.westonaprice.org , a great website. It concerns sources of fat for the (past, previous) Native Americans. Note the descriptions of their physical bodies and the *sources* of their fat:
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...americans.html

This is where I think Dr. Sears has it wrong, at least in his fear/loathing of arachidonic acid in properly sourced animal flesh-foods. Arachidonic acid, while high in organ meats, should not make us avoid eating grass-fed, organic, organ meats. Animals eat the organs of their kill first--the meat is left for the scavengers. These Native Americans obviously prized these foods and were not running around hobbling with inflammation!

Dr. Sears places little value on grass-fed, pastured animal meats, and has us shun organs (and eggs) as much as possible d/t the AA. I can see where that approach might have some validity with conventional, super fatty, Omega-6 heavy, grain-fed, polluted, antibiotic/hormone-enriched animal products. The AA in that will only add to the host of pro-inflammatory compounds in that meat.

However, the anti-inflammatory O-3s and other compounds that are in clean, organic, grass-fed organ meats (along with a host of their other benefits) far, far outweighs the detriments of a little bit too much AA for Dr. Sears' taste.

If I am recalling correctly, our government just started allowing baby formulas to contain AA, a necessary nutrient for babies proper development several years ago.

From http://www.westonaprice.org/brochures/wapfbrochure.html :

Myth: Arachidonic acid in foods like liver, butter and egg yolks causes production of "bad" inflammatory prostaglandins.
Truth: Series 2 prostaglandins that the body makes from arachidonic acid both encourage and inhibit inflammation under appropriate circumstances. Arachidonic acid is vital for the function of the brain and nervous system. (Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation Journal 20:3)

Please consider this strongly, this is the next logical step after moving away from incorrect ideas such as "low-fat diets are good".

Please, if you wish to debate these ideas, do so with science and Paleo-oriented thinking, not because of "I don't like/I won't eat organ meats so you must be wrong" or a "Dr. Sears is an infallible nutrition god and you insulted his ideas" mindset.

Dr. G
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:06 AM   #2
Nick Cummings
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Could you clarify the ammounts we are talking about? Do you recommend 2 eggs, 5 eggs, 15 eggs? Is Sears recommendation that one avoid say eggs totally?
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Old 01-09-2006, 12:17 PM   #3
Greg Battaglia
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Garret, I'm with you totally, 100%. I think that the whole paleo/zone crowd (cordain, sears, eaton) really try to ignore the major role that animal fats played in HG diets. The organs of animals contain more vital nutrients than fruits and veggies combined, yet are thought of as dangerous foods. That's just ridiculous. I think what Sears, Cordain, and others who've promoted the consumption of lean meats are trying to do is provide a diet that is reasonable for most modern Americans. I mean, think about it for a second; Is it realistic for us to eat organ meats in our current society? We could probably go to the supermarket and buy some liver or kidneys meats, but these wouldn't be organic or grassfed, which probably is dangerous. How many of us can afford or find organic/grassfed organ meats on a regular basis? I'm willing to bet that most advocates of the lean-paleo approach realize that true paleo man ate the fattiest parts of the animal (bone marrow/heart/brain) but simply understand that it's not realistic in our society, so reccommend the next best thing of lean meats, fish, fruits, nuts, and veggies. I think that if you can afford a high organ meat diet from organic sources, then GO FOR IT by all means, but most can't do it. I know you weren't looking for an answer like this, but it's the truth. I think your science is correct. AA isn't deadly, and in fact is required for optimum human development.
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:56 PM   #4
Michael Hill
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Cordain doesn't ignore this issue, in fact there is an entire section under the FAQ of his website that addresses it. There he says,

"There is absolutely no doubt that hunter-gatherers favored the fattiest part of the animals they hunted and killed...Since most of us would not savor the thought of eating brains, marrow, tongue, liver, or any other organ meat on a regular basis, a few 21st century modifications of the original Paleolithic diet are necessary to get the fatty acid balance "right." First, we suggest that you limit your choice of meats to very lean cuts..."

He continues on. IMO, Cordain is true to the cause and he has a lot less to profit from (he only sells a book).

I don't think there are many on this board who would defend Sears' on the grounds of food "quality". There isn't much love around here for soy protein powder, etc. His contribution is really in the arena of macronutrient ratios and measureablility, which allow exacting manipulation of one's diet to achieve optimal performance.

It all comes down to practicability and mass appeal.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:09 PM   #5
Greg Battaglia
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Michael, thanks for posting that Cordain quote. I must've missed that part of his FAQ when I skimmed through it in the past. What he's saying makes sense and further emphasizes the reason why there are several modifications made to a true paleo diet. He just wanted to make a doable diet, nothing extreme, in a modern sense atleast.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:56 PM   #6
Scott Kustes
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Actually, grass-fed beef organs aren't that expensive. I'm betting there's little demand, so the price has to drop (that ol' supply and demand thing pays off again!).

Scroll down to organ meats - http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/bee...and_prices.htm
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:21 PM   #7
Robert Wolf
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If the meat is gressfed there is little AA and the N-3/n-6 ratios are completely healthy and favorable.

The problem is grain feeding which is Cordains point. The WP foundation seldom makes this distinction.
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:46 PM   #8
Greg Battaglia
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WOAH!! Thanks for that link Scott, I didn't realize how cheap organ meats are! I'm still too much of a wuss to eat them though, lol.
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:54 PM   #9
Garrett Smith
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Greg,
My morning zone shake (with extra fat), contains:
Pineapple (I forget the amount, haven't maded one in a couple weeks, sometimes I use blueberries, or a mix)
2 Tbsp. [Butter oil, cod liver oil, fish oil]
1/2 lb. raw, grassfed beef liver (rinsed)
2 Tbsp flax seeds, ground just before making shake
Spring water to make up 32 oz. of total shake

It's not bad, I only eat organ meats once a day, if my supply is consistent. I will sometimes substitute kidney for the liver. I also, along with Robert, highly suggest Ted Slanker's grass-fed/pastured meat (& organs!) site that he posted previously.

Glad to see so many CFers agree on the AA issue.

Dr. G
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Old 01-10-2006, 02:48 PM   #10
Greg Battaglia
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Thanks, I might actually give that a try. I never considered putting meat into a shake, but if it works out then I think it could be an awesome nutritional plus to my diet. Thanks again.
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