CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-25-2011, 06:46 AM   #61
Robert Fabsik
Member Robert Fabsik is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kildeer  IL
Posts: 2,233
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
The raw record is 1,000 lbs and the equipped 1,265 lbs both by roughly 400 lbs men. I know for a fact Don Reinhoudt squatted over 900 lbs with and without knee wraps in the 70s.
Don was a beast back then. I remember watching him on WSM and it was pretty amazing his level of absolute and even strength endurance.

Do you think to keep the sport alive/growing records have to continually be broken? If so, geared lifting has more potential. Amazing how human potential seems to grow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 08:54 AM   #62
Mike Wazowski
Member Mike Wazowski is offline
 
Mike Wazowski's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: College Station  TX
Posts: 189
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hoffman View Post
How did geared 'lifting' get started, anyway?
^ fixed
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 10:04 AM   #63
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Norris View Post
Chris I have no doubt that Westside will get you strong. I know for a fact that you have many success stories both within the Crossfit community and outside, however coming here and bashing what is a very good program for beginner lifters is not going to do you any good whatsoever.

If you are going to make such claims that SS is crap and Westside is awesome then perhaps you should offer evidence that this is the case?
Perhaps I have done that already - rather extensively in both articles and on these forums?

The nutshell is a program like SS will work for a period of time, but it is highly limited and in my opinion why would someone choose such a program when something clearly better is available to them.

It is like the man in the desert digging for water with his hands. When someone comes along and offers him a shovel he angrily throws the shovel back at them and continues to dig with his hands. Many CrossFitters are the guy digging with his hands when it comes to strength training.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 10:05 AM   #64
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Girvan View Post
And you are most definitely going about it the wrong way.
In your opinion, and you could be right, but I don't think so.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 10:07 AM   #65
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Yudman View Post
true...but what about guys like chad smith, who endorses block periodization...guys like andrey malanichev, mike tuscherer? I guess for me watching a guy total 2000 raw is way more impressive than 2800 geard...when it takes a lifter 3 helpers and 15 minutes to get him into his gear, and then use a monolift, eh its kinda boring to me
Mike is a smart guy with great heredity. Andrey is a machine. I agree there are more than one way to skin a cat, but some ways are better than others and Westside is clearly the best based upon all that I have seen.

Block periodization is just plain stupid and one will never realize their true potential with it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 10:10 AM   #66
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric A. Brown View Post
This.

I train Westside, for the record, and have since I started reading Louie's stuff in PLUSA after converting from OL'ing in, I think, the late 80's? Maybe very early in the 90's. But that still does not mean it is going to automatically work best for everyone.

Many people do just fine without rotating anything. Ric Gaugler did the same program for over a decade, and he was IPF world champ. Many people have dominated at the world level without using Westside (Coan, Gant - my personal favorite), etc.

There are many methods to get strong, and obviously I prefer Westside, or I would not have trained that way before there were ever any chains and bands, and back when regular DE percentages routinely exceeded 70%. But because someone does well with the system does not make it superior to every other system.

Oh, and Thompsons squat was a joke, it was that high. If I can practically drive a half-track under somebody's *** in the bottom of their squat, the guy squatting better be the Jolly Green Giant. And yeah, I have done my share of judging. One of the reasons why I will never, ever lift in an SPF meet.
Eric, pause the video circulating at the lowest point of the squat and then tell me how horribly high it was. If you have been a judge you also know that there is nothing like seeing the lift in person and judging from a video can be very difficult.

Yes, you can get incredibly strong training other ways than Westside if you have the right heredity, but that does preclude the fact Westside is superior (by the way, there is individual variety within Westside - no all of the guys train exactly the same).
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 10:31 AM   #67
Eric A. Brown
Member Eric A. Brown is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York  NY
Posts: 226
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Eric, pause the video circulating at the lowest point of the squat and then tell me how horribly high it was. If you have been a judge you also know that there is nothing like seeing the lift in person and judging from a video can be very difficult.

Yes, you can get incredibly strong training other ways than Westside if you have the right heredity, but that does preclude the fact Westside is superior (by the way, there is individual variety within Westside - no all of the guys train exactly the same).
Saw it. I have yet to comment on PL Watch, I am not taking part in that ****-show.

High. Not sure how high because I was not there, but obviously high remains obviously high.

And I never said that there was no variety within Westside.

However, if you are going to claim that Westside is superior, you need to back this up with legit support. Lifts that would have gotten nothing but red a few years ago, even in the APF, well, I suppose there is a place for it, but not in the support of any reasonable argument.

To say it is superior, you need to compare the results of the program under controlled conditions (passing lifts that do not meet a standard does not count as a controlled condition) and eliminate other variables. Otherwise, you are just as entitle to your opinion as everyone else. And everyone else remains entitled to bust your balls if you cannot support it.

Obviously I am not bashing Westside. I started out training using variations of the conjugate system in OL'ing about 30 years ago, and switching to Westside for PL'ing was the most natural thing in the world for me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 02:20 PM   #68
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric A. Brown View Post
Saw it. I have yet to comment on PL Watch, I am not taking part in that ****-show.

High. Not sure how high because I was not there, but obviously high remains obviously high.

And I never said that there was no variety within Westside.

However, if you are going to claim that Westside is superior, you need to back this up with legit support. Lifts that would have gotten nothing but red a few years ago, even in the APF, well, I suppose there is a place for it, but not in the support of any reasonable argument.

To say it is superior, you need to compare the results of the program under controlled conditions (passing lifts that do not meet a standard does not count as a controlled condition) and eliminate other variables. Otherwise, you are just as entitle to your opinion as everyone else. And everyone else remains entitled to bust your balls if you cannot support it.

Obviously I am not bashing Westside. I started out training using variations of the conjugate system in OL'ing about 30 years ago, and switching to Westside for PL'ing was the most natural thing in the world for me.
Ok, watch Dave Hoff's 945 lbs bench press in the 275 lbs class in a FULL MEET. That would pass in any federation and without Donnie hitting his 950 lbs in the same meet would have beaten the old record, regardless of class, by 40 lbs!

How about Laura Phelps' deadlift or bench presses?

You think all of the squats are high, so I should skip them, but your logic is a bit flawed with that one because you are dead wrong in what would or would not have passed in the other feds. In fact, the first 1,200 lbs squat which was passed in a fed other than the SPF was WAYYYYY higher than any of the squats at the Pro-Am.

Another thing about the whole depth argument that gets lost on the ignorant masses is that people who "bury" their squats like O-lifters and the Chad guy getting referenced here are using the stretch reflex like a mother****er to literally BOUNCE out of the hole and thrust themselves into a partial squat position where they can muscle out the lift. If they actually paused in their "deep" position they would get buried in the hole. So, which lift is easier, the paused, or nearly paused squat to parallel or just above or the "buried" bounce out of the hole?

Whether a meet is raw or equipped there are always lifts that get passed that some people question. That's the sport. That has nothing to do with training methods.

Louie's methods have produced all-time record after all-time record from when there was NO gear all the way through the progression.

If Louie's methods aren't the best how does a 10 or so man crew consistently out-lift pretty much every other athlete in the world?

Why isn't the US O-lifting as dominant? I know, training has nothing to do with it...

To question the group-think about anything is always difficult because people like to think they know best, but in the end, the proof is in the pudding and Louie's pudding always proves out regardless of federation or gear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 02:56 PM   #69
Arturo Garcia
Member Arturo Garcia is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Santo Domingo  Dominican Republic
Posts: 1,875
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Another thing about the whole depth argument that gets lost on the ignorant masses is that people who "bury" their squats like O-lifters and the Chad guy getting referenced here are using the stretch reflex like a mother****er to literally BOUNCE out of the hole and thrust themselves into a partial squat position where they can muscle out the lift. If they actually paused in their "deep" position they would get buried in the hole. So, which lift is easier, the paused, or nearly paused squat to parallel or just above or the "buried" bounce out of the hole?
I don't know why but that was so funny!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2011, 06:42 PM   #70
Ben Norris
Member Ben Norris is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sunshine Coast  QLD Australia
Posts: 727
Re: For ANYONE that questions Westside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Perhaps I have done that already - rather extensively in both articles and on these forums?

The nutshell is a program like SS will work for a period of time, but it is highly limited and in my opinion why would someone choose such a program when something clearly better is available to them.

It is like the man in the desert digging for water with his hands. When someone comes along and offers him a shovel he angrily throws the shovel back at them and continues to dig with his hands. Many CrossFitters are the guy digging with his hands when it comes to strength training.
What you have shown me is that some of the best powerlifters who have had many many years experience, who use suits and "supplements" have found success with your program. Which I do not doubt your program has helped them. However to say that your program is better for the novice lifter who has never picked up a barbell than Starting Strength which is a program designed for the novice lifter is not something you can really claim when none of the evidence you have provided has been on the novice lifter comparing SS to Westside.

Chris your attitude of "Westside is the greatest program ever and everything else is s**t" is really beginning to annoy not just me. Put it this way Rich Froning Jr is the Fittest man on this Planet, and i saw a video of him in which he ate peanut butter and Jelly, and using your logic I have concluded that eating PB & J is what made him the Fittest man on the planet. It was NOT his dedication to training, it was not his years of hard work, it was not his Genetics, it was not his early childhood of doing hard work, it was not his mental strength it was PB & J.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Westside of Olympia, WA Craig Sheley In Search of CrossFitters 0 01-15-2011 06:06 PM
Westside For Grapplers Troy Becker Fitness 13 12-25-2010 07:50 PM
Westside Barbell Program Jason Beck Fitness 8 02-18-2009 03:46 PM
Crossfit + Westside Joseph Cormier Fitness 12 08-20-2008 06:10 AM
Westside? Kevin Roddy Fitness 17 05-19-2004 04:54 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.