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Old 10-08-2009, 06:04 AM   #161
Ryan Whitley
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex McRobie View Post
right i found that, but the only reason for that is the front squat technique will put off the back squat technique,

i do not claim to be an expert but i have had A LOT of technique work done my proffesional oly lifting coaches on both the olympic lifts and the back squat, and i mean a lot.
I find this doubtful, because 99% of what you post on this site is garbage.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:43 AM   #162
Dave Winchester
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex McRobie View Post
any other reason that i could not add in a front squat?
my goal from doing this program (if i do switch to it) will be to improve in crossfit and all lifts, my front squat is currently one of my biggest weaknesses.

also if adding a front squat is ok, i could do it one of two ways:

1. use it instead of one of the back squat days

or

2. replace it in one of the power clean days, by this i do not mean doing a squat clean, i mean doing a power clean...pause at the top...doing a front squat and then lowering to the ground for the next rep

Justin and anyone else what are your thoughts?
Why not try the program as written before you modify it? When you change it, it's no longer the program.

1. What's your current BS and FS? Your FS will most likely go up with your BS poundages.

2. The exercises and their variants were chosen for a reason, Justin has already gone over this in the thread.

Just out of curiousity, what will bringing up your FS do that increasing your BS won't in your case?
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:43 AM   #163
Kevin Perry
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex McRobie View Post
right i found that, but the only reason for that is the front squat technique will put off the back squat technique,

i do not claim to be an expert but i have had A LOT of technique work done my proffesional oly lifting coaches on both the olympic lifts and the back squat, and i mean a lot.

what im trying to say is that if i already have spent time learning the correct technique is their any other reason that i could not add in a front squat?
my goal from doing this program (if i do switch to it) will be to improve in crossfit and all lifts, my front squat is currently one of my biggest weaknesses.

also if adding a front squat is ok, i could do it one of two ways:

1. use it instead of one of the back squat days

or

2. replace it in one of the power clean days, by this i do not mean doing a squat clean, i mean doing a power clean...pause at the top...doing a front squat and then lowering to the ground for the next rep

Justin and anyone else what are your thoughts?
Wrong, Front Squats will not "mess" up back squat technique. I frequently front squat and back squat heavy on the same day that I clean and work snatches.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:48 AM   #164
Dave Winchester
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Kevin Perry View Post
Wrong, Front Squats will not "mess" up back squat technique. I frequently front squat and back squat heavy on the same day that I clean and work snatches.
Obviously, it's dependent on the experience one has with the lifts. Rip (and Justin, I'm assuming) uses the low-bar position on squats, not sure if this has something do with it.

I took the comment as directed to someone inexperienced with the back squat. Either way, your post prompted me to find the quote so others don't have to dig for it (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Lascek View Post
Oh look, a real question.

Hey Graeme,

The primary reason for power cleans to be used over cleans (or squat cleans, or full cleans) in a general strength program for a novice is that the front squat portion of the clean will ruin the kinesthetic sense that is learned from back squatting correctly. When the back squat is being learned, it's awful to try and front squat during this period because then the back squat starts having front squat mechanics -- and this will ruin any potential hip drive, and thus be an unuseful movement.

Aside from that, the power clean is caught higher, and thus will have to be jumped higher. More of a jump means that more motor units are being recruited which increases neuromuscular efficiency.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:56 AM   #165
Nick Hoffman
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

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Originally Posted by Kevin Perry View Post
Wrong, Front Squats will not "mess" up back squat technique. I frequently front squat and back squat heavy on the same day that I clean and work snatches.
I'm going to assume that you're an experienced lifter.

This program is made for novice lifters (though I prefer the term "el presidente"), hence the linear progression. He wants people to get the BS right instead of doing a bunch of other squat variations and not getting it down. At least that's what I'm guessing.
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:50 AM   #166
Kevin Perry
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

meh, if you want to get strong stop trying to discuss theory and get under the bar and lift it with weight, more talking is not going to make you any better at the lifts. BTW, I'm not going to jump into the low bar vs high bar thing since I haven't read the whole thread so im guessing he is using a low bar position. Edit, not trying to jump on anyone I meant the post that referred to Alex having "lots" of technique work. I just find that if that were true then there would be no issues with front squats and back squats on the same day, then again everyone's a pro around here these days.

Last edited by Kevin Perry : 10-08-2009 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:13 AM   #167
Lynne Pitts
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Ryan
Read the AUP. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS OR FLAMING.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Whitley View Post
I find this doubtful, because 99% of what you post on this site is garbage.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:18 AM   #168
Justin McGinley
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex McRobie View Post
right i found that, but the only reason for that is the front squat technique will put off the back squat technique,

i do not claim to be an expert but i have had A LOT of technique work done my proffesional oly lifting coaches on both the olympic lifts and the back squat, and i mean a lot.

what im trying to say is that if i already have spent time learning the correct technique is their any other reason that i could not add in a front squat?
my goal from doing this program (if i do switch to it) will be to improve in crossfit and all lifts, my front squat is currently one of my biggest weaknesses.

also if adding a front squat is ok, i could do it one of two ways:

1. use it instead of one of the back squat days

or

2. replace it in one of the power clean days, by this i do not mean doing a squat clean, i mean doing a power clean...pause at the top...doing a front squat and then lowering to the ground for the next rep

Justin and anyone else what are your thoughts?
You are still a novice when it comes to strength gains, so no, don't modify things and add in Front Squats. Just eat more, and put more weight on the bar each and every time you back squat. You will have plenty of time to modify things after you are squatting over 300 for work sets.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:21 AM   #169
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Once I got to 340 for work sets, I switched the back squats on the second day to front squats. I feel a lot better now, I can recover and I'm back to making linear gains.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:51 PM   #170
Alex McRobie
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Re: CrossFit Wichita Falls Programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Whitley View Post
I find this doubtful, because 99% of what you post on this site is garbage.
steady on brother!

this is pretty much what Justin said when someone asked about front squats earlier (see a few posts above, someone has quoted it).

as to the garbage comment, im sorry if im not a proffesional in the crossfit world and i post what i think is right, from my (obviously limited compared to a lot of people on this board) knowledge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Winchester View Post
Why not try the program as written before you modify it? When you change it, it's no longer the program.

1. What's your current BS and FS? Your FS will most likely go up with your BS poundages.

2. The exercises and their variants were chosen for a reason, Justin has already gone over this in the thread.

Just out of curiousity, what will bringing up your FS do that increasing your BS won't in your case?
ok my problem is that my power clean is more than my front squat by quite a large amount too (roughly 10kg?)

i understand what your saying about back squat will increase my front squat anyway and i know thats true to a degree but they are quite different movements and if im already doing back squats then are front squats really going to hurt?
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