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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-26-2010, 10:19 AM   #21
Paul Sousa
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

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Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham View Post
24 pounds of fat and Zach had just turned 20 years old. I rest my case.
You do realize by gaining at better than a 1:1 ratio of LBM to fat he actually improved his BF%, right? So he actually would be leaner with that 24 pounds of fat?
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:37 AM   #22
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

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he actually improved his BF%
24 lbs. more bodyfat is fatter. Playing with percentage numbers won't change that.

Besides, check your math.

If Zach weighed 165 when he started and had a bodyfat percentage of 10%, he'd be 220 now at 18% bodyfat. If he started at 165 and 15% bodyfat, he'd be 220 now at 22% bodyfat.

The problem with the OP is probably the same as a lot of beginning lifters trying to get strong and put on weight. Chances are his lifting intensity is not matching his eating intensity. Chances are the quality of both his lifting and the quality of his food needs a gut check, both literally and figuratively.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:42 AM   #23
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

"24 lbs. more bodyfat is fatter. Playing with percentage numbers won't change that."

Lincoln,

While I agree with the rest of your post, I find this statement odd. Is a 200 lb person with 10% bf (20 lbs of fat) fatter or skinnier than a 150 lb person with 12 % fat (18 lbs of fat)?
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:50 AM   #24
Paul Sousa
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

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You do realize by gaining at better than a 1:1 ratio of LBM to fat he actually improved his BF%, right? So he actually would be leaner with that 24 pounds of fat?
My bad, total math fail. Teaches me to try and handle more than single digits in my head.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:11 PM   #25
Evan Anderson
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

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Originally Posted by Lincoln Brigham View Post
24 pounds of fat and Zach had just turned 20 years old. I rest my case.
If your case was, "Here at Crossift, we care more about maintaining teh sixpack for the badass shirtless workouts than actually being stronger", then yes, you can indeed rest your "case".

I recommend everyone read Zach's story on starting strength again, paying attention to the strength gains, and ask yourself if that hurts or helps his fitness. Also, ask yourself if it is harder to lose 15 lbs of fat, or gain 31 pounds of muscle.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:18 PM   #26
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

Evan,

WHile I agree with your sentiment, Lincoln made no comment about "abz" or needing to be lean to be fit.

"Other than teenagers and steroid users, I haven't met or heard of any sub-150 lb. six-footers who put on 50 pounds of bodyweight and didn't get fat in the process. If I'm wrong, I'd like to hear their story.

I really don't buy in to the whole thought process of needing to get in shape before starting Crossfit."

He simply stated that in gaining muscle, you will gain fat (at least enough to raise you BFC) in the process.

"Also, ask yourself if it is harder to lose 15 lbs of fat, or gain 31 pounds of muscle"

nearly always harder to gain muscle.

TO the OP,

At 6' 172 lb with those numbers, flabiness is the least of your worries.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:25 PM   #27
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

+1 for Jamie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
"24 lbs. more bodyfat is fatter. Playing with percentage numbers won't change that."

Lincoln,

While I agree with the rest of your post, I find this statement odd. Is a 200 lb person with 10% bf (20 lbs of fat) fatter or skinnier than a 150 lb person with 12 % fat (18 lbs of fat)?
Assuming they are the same height, the 200 pound person is fatter. The reason why percentages are used is because 200 lb. people are often taller than 150 lb. people. So a six-foot tall person carrying around 20 lbs. of fat is leaner than a 5'6" person carrying around 18 pounds of fat. And by "fatter" and "leaner" I'm talking about performance and health, not necessarily aesthetics.

Flip this math on it's head. Is a 200 lb. person with 90% lean body mass weaker than a 150lb. person with 95% lean body mass? They certainly have a lot more muscle. Maybe they worked and dieted hard to gain each pound of that muscle. Should we use percentages to make them look weak? Or should we give them proper credit for gaining that pound of muscle just as we should give someone credit for losing a pound of bodyfat, percentages be damned? Why should we use pounds of for measuring muscle, but switch to using percentages when measuring fat loss? Shouldn't losing a pound of bodyfat count for something regardless of how it affect BF%?

Put a 20 lb. pile of fat on the table in front of you. Put another pile with 18 pounds of fat on the table. Which pile do you want inside your body? Which pile would make you more muscular? Which pile would make you fatter?

Last edited by Lincoln Brigham : 01-26-2010 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:29 PM   #28
Evan Anderson
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

Eric, Lincoln got me sidetracked.

My advice to you at your height and weight is this: Get bigger and stronger. Take advantage of your newb gains in the squat, bench, press, etc. Come back after that and decide if you want to "do" crossfit.
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:44 PM   #29
Joshua Refenes
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
"24 lbs. more bodyfat is fatter. Playing with percentage numbers won't change that."

Lincoln,

While I agree with the rest of your post, I find this statement odd. Is a 200 lb person with 10% bf (20 lbs of fat) fatter or skinnier than a 150 lb person with 12 % fat (18 lbs of fat)?
It's all semantics. Is "fatter"

1) the person who has a higher % of their weight in fat, or
2) the person who is carrying more lbs of fat?
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:50 PM   #30
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: 6 foot, 172 pounds... gain weight before Xfit?

Is Naim Süleymanoğlu (3xbw snatch at 123 lbs BW) or Antonio Krastev (476 lb snatch (the IWF be damned))?

I think both total fat and BFC are useful numbers, but for "fatter", I say it's the person with high BFC.

But like Joshua said, at this point it's semantics.
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