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Old 02-10-2009, 06:58 AM   #91
Coach
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Here's Mark Stephenson's response to me:

Greg,

I’m not sure that the info regarding me opinion of CrossFit is correct. .I state that CrossFit is program that has its place within a training program.

As far as NTOA, They do not endorse any programs. The do run articles that are pro-CrossFit but there are some physicians involved with the NTOA (TEMS) that want warn SWAT of the “dangers”. I personally do not write any such articles. My involvement is dealing with standardized fitness testing. My focus is educating on the proper training principles of whatever program is being used.

Based on what the Army medical and Navy medical people that I deal with tell me within the SOF units, they are seeing a sharp increase injuries that they feel are due to CrossFit. The reality probably is that it is due to the improper technique they use rather than the program. Like any program or routine if you don’t use proper technique the risk of injury increases.

As far as the Navy lawsuit, I received an email (and I will try to find it if it wasn’t purged) that announced it. I do remember who copied me on it so I will track it down. I was responding to a specific question I do not announce this at our lectures.

I am not sure who your staffer is but I don’t have any pending emails regarding its use. I do know that some of the operators in these units do subscribe to CrossFit but the units themselves do not subscribe to one particular type of training. We do not discourage anyone who is doing CrossFit to discontinue. If one of my staff is sending that message then I need to know that.

The fact is I have nothing against CrossFit and I do think it is “functional”.

I think it would be better to talk directly to me and discuss any concerns. I think you will find that I am not against CrossFit or you as you may think. I return next week to the office and would be very happy to talk to you and clear the air.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Mark D. Stephenson, MS, CSCS,*D, ATC

Tactical Strength and Conditioning

Human Performance Center Director

National Strength and Conditioning Association

1885 Bob Johnson Drive

Colorado Springs, CO 80906

Phone: 719-632-6722 ext. 121 Fax: 719-632-6367

email: mstephenson@nsca-lift.org

website: www.nsca-lift.org www.nsca-lift.org/tsac
 
Old 02-10-2009, 12:15 PM   #92
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Coach the tag under your user profile should read "Godfather/Founding Father".

It's astounding what a little bit of open and honest communication can bring about.
 
Old 02-10-2009, 01:49 PM   #93
John C. Brown
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Well Coach, it seems like this guy is at least a step ahead of the rest in that he is willing to speak with you, now I guess we just need to see if he is willing to listen.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:06 PM   #94
Robbie Cooper
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I just read all ten pages of this thread and have a few random comments:

1) Best thread ever.

2) As a former Combat Medic in the US Army, I only wish we'd had CF training back in the late 80s-early 90s when I was serving. As a 40-year old desk-jockey with two reconstructed ACLs, I'm in better shape now than when I was a 23 year old active duty Soldier.

3) One of the things that appeals to me so much about CF is the knowledge that this is the type of training that is helping to forge an elite fighting force. Even if I know longer serve, I like being a part of this program that a lot of you are doing.

4) Every day I am humbled by the brave men and women who put on the uniform, pick up the weapon, and protect me/my family/our nation. Thank you all.
 
Old 02-10-2009, 02:52 PM   #95
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Apropos of absolutely nothing I developed a contact which may help me in my job which is helping military folks in an area which has nothing to do with physical fitness that I discovered through an article I discovered in the CFJ. This retired Military man is leaning toward CrossFit right now. Thanks Coach
 
Old 02-10-2009, 05:05 PM   #96
Jonathan Malone
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

[font="Arial"]so I'm at the (Eglin AFB) gym and notice a sign posted above the empty KB rack stating something like:

'Attn Crossiftters, kettlebells have been removed pending a study by the American college of Sports Medicine...'

I've been lobbying/pestering the staff to embrace CrossFit for the past 18 months and was beginning to make progress, but now this, ignorance prevails

next to go are all jump ropes, barbells, medicine balls, pullup bars...
 
Old 02-10-2009, 05:50 PM   #97
Amber Mathwig
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

On a good news note - when my CFT competition announcement went out base wide the other day, not only was I contacted by people interested in the competition, I was also contacted by people who were interested in starting with CrossFit and wanted some help. 3 out of the 4 were O-3 and above (and I believe the O-6 said he is bringing more people whenever we get together).
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:28 AM   #98
Beau Bryant
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I have not followed this thread but from the title I would add this:

100% of my affiliate income is from contracts with the military teaching CrossFit. I have not seen business slow down and have actually grown considerably in the last 6 months.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 08:09 AM   #99
Barry Cooper
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

First Email: We have our reservations from both a scientific and functional point of view.

Second email: We do not discourage anyone who is doing CrossFit to discontinue. [Note there what his poor grammar actually implies: what does it mean “to not discourage someone from discontinuing”?]

First Email: As far as the military goes, the Marine Corps is going away from it and so is the Navy.

My words, since he didn’t oblige me here: Surely their new PT Test, CrossFit gyms at Quantico and Camp Pendleton, posts by active duty Marines on this thread and Operation Phoenix would argue otherwise?

First email: The Navy has a lawsuit against them right now.

Second email: As far as the Navy lawsuit, I received an email (and I will try to find it if it wasn’t purged) that announced it. [We ought perhaps not to hold our collectives breaths, since this case was discussed thoroughly last fall, and he is in error.]

First email: CrossFit advertises that most of these communities use this method but the truth is they are starting to pull away because of the high injury rate.

Second email: Based on what the Army medical and Navy medical people that I deal with tell me within the SOF units, they are seeing a sharp increase injuries that they feel are due to CrossFit. The reality probably is that it is due to the improper technique they use rather than the program.

First email: When it comes to SWAT, I am on the fitness committee for the National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA) and they do not endorse CrossFit.

Second email: As far as NTOA, They do not endorse any programs.

First email: There will be some articles coming out this year warning SWAT not to get caught up in the Crossffit cult.

Second email: I state that CrossFit is [sic] program that has its place within a training program.

First email: I will Keep you in the loop on where all this is going.

Second email: I am not sure who your staffer is but I don’t have any pending emails regarding its use.


I think the above speaks pretty clearly. I can't speak to what all the hard chargers are doing, but every time there is a Cert. for one of the SF Groups, it's posted. I know they've been out to Okinawa and Fort Campbell several times. As Mike said, they use CrossFit in the Air Force Pipeline for PJ's and CCT's. CrossFit has been integrated into BUD/S. All of these, by the name "CrossFit", as far as I know.

With respect to injury, it should be noted that the whole of the existing PT structure is oriented around reducing injury, but they still have a lot of injuries. New recruits routinely get rhabdo. Many get running related injuries, or back injuries from improper lifting technique, or lack of strength.

CrossFit, where it has been tested, has been found to REDUCE all of those injuries, since many of them resulted from overuse and poor muscle balance related to insufficient variety and functionality of exercise movements.

Moreover, any program which is sufficiently realistic to mimic the real world--which after all is what we are trying to prepare at least our shooting soldiers for--is going to have to push you to the point where injuries occasionally happen. I think responsible, sincere people need to balance the fact that injuries happen with ALL fitness regimens that are effective, with the risk of sending combat troops out into the field underprepared for the dangers facing them.

As stated, CrossFit can be empirically shown to reduce injuries relative to programs which have been in place for many years, but the risk is never going to be zero. Part of the problem is that where most competing programs prevaricate, Coach is completely open. That makes it look like we are more dangerous than we are.
 
Old 02-11-2009, 12:57 PM   #100
Barry Cooper
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

You know, I was thinking about this some more. As mentioned, I was an NSCA-CPT. I read a textbook, and bought a video on what they felt were proper mechanics on a number of movements, many of them on machines.

Looking at their site, I see that what I had to buy in the past is now available on line (w/fs): http://www.nsca-lift.org/videos/displayvideos.asp

Who do you think created the pressure on them to create these videos?

For reference sake, compare their site, with the CrossFit's videos here:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html

Compare their overall site, here (w/fs): http://www.nsca-lift.org/mbrresources.shtml to that of CrossFit. Here you can upload videos for coaching. Here you can ask questions, and get decent answers. And it's all free.

I got the NSCA Journal periodically. Here are few examples of the content:

"The NFL Combine: Does it predict Performance in the National Football League?"

Eight weeks of Ballistic Exercise Improves Power independently of Changes in Strength and Muscle Type fiber expression."

Relationship between Muscle Power Output using the Strength-Shortening Cycle and Eccentric Maximum Strength".

It's a rare Journal when I read one article. Frankly, I get a LOT more useful information from the CrossFit Journal.

Where the rubber meets the road is the ability to increase people's health and work capacity systematically, and predictably. This involves trying things with trainees, and observing what works. CrossFit works.

For the sake of reference, here is the ACSM website (w/fs):http://www.acsm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

Earning an ACSM certification is much harder than NSCA. Typically it requires a degree in Exercise Science, or something like it. That's presumably why the members I've met had large egoes and found strutting easier than walking.

At the risk of belaboring the obvious, CrossFit was not created by Exercise Scientists. They never would have invented it, because it is too far outside the paradigms which consider strength and cardio to be two different things, and experimentation something done only in labs, being much too exalted for the undegreed rank and file.

To be sure, Circuit training has been around a long time, but it has never to my knowledge been done in our particular way, defined in its objectives to our degree of precision, and certainly never sparked a community or resource like this one here.

There is quite literally nothing like Crossfit.com on the internet or anywhere else in the public sphere. Nothing.
 
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