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Old 10-01-2008, 07:40 PM   #61
Lou Cabales
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

rest ..... the most undervalued element of training

also if i know my body is going show signs of OTS over training symptoms, like on recent squat day. i'll up my nutrition a bit and get more rest.

also I'm getting to a point when i know about the right level without OT.

take it easy, before you really get in the dumps.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:45 PM   #62
Melissa Urban
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

I love this thread!!! You guys rock, I can't wait to see when all of you "graduate". I'll offer my best pull-up tips here.

GTG is the way to go. If you're able to work these throughout the day, then each GTG effort should include just ONE pull-up. The point of GTG is NOT to work to failure.

Attack the pull-up from as many angles as possible
. Starting with what I found the MOST helpful:
  • Partials from the top. JUMP or stand on a box to get your chin over the bar. (Don't stress your arms out here - just get to the top position the easiest way you can.) Lower yourself 1/4 of the way down, then pull back up. Each attempt, lower yourself a bit more before returning to chin-over-bar.
  • Partials from the bottom. Starting from dead hang, pull yourself up as far as you can, slowly lower. This is how I learned to engage my back.
  • Jumping pull-up. Starting from full extension, give yourself as small a boost as you need to get to chin-over-bar. Note, this is NOT a met-con-ish jumping PU where you're springing up and down like a jackrabbit. This is one focused attempt, jump small and pull hard.
  • Static holds at the top and bottom. JUMP to chin-over-bar, hold as long as you can. Or from a dead hang (with active shoulders), engage your back and hold as long as you can.
  • Negatives. JUMP to chin-over-bar, lower yourself slowly. Do these sparingly, they're tough on your muscles.
  • Band-assisted dead hangs, if you've got 'em. I didn't have any bands, so I'm not sure how helpful they are in the whole scheme of things... but they're another way to attack the movement.
  • I don't put much stock in the Gravitron - it forces an unnatural movement pattern (unlike bands, which are totally flexible).
  • Don't bother with lat pull-downs. They won't help much, if at all.

General tip. A chin-up grip with hands close together is "easiest".

General tip. Look up past the bar - in the direction you're trying to go - as you're pulling.

General tip. REST. You cannot practice these every day. Take at least two pull-up free days per week. Trying to do too much will only set you back.

Hopefully one of these tips will help someone get themselves over that bar. Good luck, everyone!
Melissa
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:35 PM   #63
Stephen R. Lampl
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa Byers View Post
I love this thread!!! You guys rock, I can't wait to see when all of you "graduate". I'll offer my best pull-up tips here.

GTG is the way to go. If you're able to work these throughout the day, then each GTG effort should include just ONE pull-up. The point of GTG is NOT to work to failure.

Attack the pull-up from as many angles as possible
. Starting with what I found the MOST helpful:
  • Partials from the top. JUMP or stand on a box to get your chin over the bar. (Don't stress your arms out here - just get to the top position the easiest way you can.) Lower yourself 1/4 of the way down, then pull back up. Each attempt, lower yourself a bit more before returning to chin-over-bar.
  • Partials from the bottom. Starting from dead hang, pull yourself up as far as you can, slowly lower. This is how I learned to engage my back.
  • Jumping pull-up. Starting from full extension, give yourself as small a boost as you need to get to chin-over-bar. Note, this is NOT a met-con-ish jumping PU where you're springing up and down like a jackrabbit. This is one focused attempt, jump small and pull hard.
  • Static holds at the top and bottom. JUMP to chin-over-bar, hold as long as you can. Or from a dead hang (with active shoulders), engage your back and hold as long as you can.
  • Negatives. JUMP to chin-over-bar, lower yourself slowly. Do these sparingly, they're tough on your muscles.
  • Band-assisted dead hangs, if you've got 'em. I didn't have any bands, so I'm not sure how helpful they are in the whole scheme of things... but they're another way to attack the movement.
  • I don't put much stock in the Gravitron - it forces an unnatural movement pattern (unlike bands, which are totally flexible).
  • Don't bother with lat pull-downs. They won't help much, if at all.
General tip. A chin-up grip with hands close together is "easiest".

General tip. Look up past the bar - in the direction you're trying to go - as you're pulling.

General tip. REST. You cannot practice these every day. Take at least two pull-up free days per week. Trying to do too much will only set you back.

Hopefully one of these tips will help someone get themselves over that bar. Good luck, everyone!
Melissa
Melissa,

Wonderful tips and information. I can't do the GTGs as the only place at which I have access to a bar right now is my globogym. I've been doing (attempting) the Recon Ron program. Worked really well - - but I think I overdid it.

If I do lat pull-downs with strict form - - pulling with my lats, similar grip position (over and underhand) as with pull-ups, and pull all the way through the range of motion, will they still be of no real benefit?

How high do I eventually want to realistically place myself over the bar? I've seen some who have no problem pulling-up to to mid-chest level. I've never (even when slender and able to do 10 DHPUs) been able to do that - just get my chin over.

Thanks again for all the help!
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:11 AM   #64
Melissa Urban
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

Steven,

From everything I've read (and experienced), lat pull-downs are, at best, better than doing nothing at all... but nowhere near as valuable as the other variations. "All of them (as listed) have the advantage, in that they are neurologically more valuable than the unnatural motion of locking your knees under a pad and moving just your arms." (That is a quote from an old post by David Wood. And he's a smart guy.)

If your goal is to be able to do a single dead hang pull-up, get yourself there any way you can. If you find one particular grip easier than the others, then work that. As chin over bar is still the standard for CrossFit workouts, focus on getting your chin over the bar first. Once you've got a dead hang, then you can play around with chest to bar, mixing up your grip, and other variations.

Hope that helps,
Melissa
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:35 AM   #65
Camille Lore
 
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

I just have to say that I followed Melissa's advice to a T (minus using bands) and GTG at work on the overhead support for the public bathroom stalls. I had to cover it with duct tape, bc they are sharp to discourage this kind of use.
Her advice worked perfectly for me. I would try a few jumping, negatives, etc. each time I went to the bathroom at work.
I don't have a massive number of PUs now- 4 deadhangs, but 21 kips!
Be creative in finding that place to GTG- door, doorframe, etc.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:07 AM   #66
Anu Varadharajan
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

I've been GTG'g at home. ONe every hour. Since I can do only 1 jumping pu, that's my max/failure etc. I'm going to the gym tomorrow and planning to try it out there and see what happens. I'm nervous just thinking about it!
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:30 PM   #67
Stephen R. Lampl
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa Byers View Post
Steven,

From everything I've read (and experienced), lat pull-downs are, at best, better than doing nothing at all... but nowhere near as valuable as the other variations. "All of them (as listed) have the advantage, in that they are neurologically more valuable than the unnatural motion of locking your knees under a pad and moving just your arms." (That is a quote from an old post by David Wood. And he's a smart guy.)

If your goal is to be able to do a single dead hang pull-up, get yourself there any way you can. If you find one particular grip easier than the others, then work that. As chin over bar is still the standard for CrossFit workouts, focus on getting your chin over the bar first. Once you've got a dead hang, then you can play around with chest to bar, mixing up your grip, and other variations.

Hope that helps,
Melissa
Melissa, your follow-up info and answers to my questions was very helpful, thank you! My goal (long term) is to do 50 DHPUs, but I'll settle for getting back my one right now. I'm finding that learning how to kip is a very daunting (and sometimes, amusing) task. I feel (and look) like a walrus trying to do gymnastics. Anyway, I truly appreciate your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camille Lore View Post
I just have to say that I followed Melissa's advice to a T (minus using bands) and GTG at work on the overhead support for the public bathroom stalls. I had to cover it with duct tape, bc they are sharp to discourage this kind of use.
Her advice worked perfectly for me. I would try a few jumping, negatives, etc. each time I went to the bathroom at work.
I don't have a massive number of PUs now- 4 deadhangs, but 21 kips!
Be creative in finding that place to GTG- door, doorframe, etc.
Camille,

Thank you also! I don't have bands right now - - there a bit out of my budget, but someone suggested I try the "poor man's" band - - a bike innertube, for right now. I am willing to try anything to improve my strength in all areas. BTW, 4 deadhangs is AWESOME and 21 kips - - isn't that perfect for "Fran?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anu Varadharajan View Post
I've been GTG'g at home. ONe every hour. Since I can do only 1 jumping pu, that's my max/failure etc. I'm going to the gym tomorrow and planning to try it out there and see what happens. I'm nervous just thinking about it!
Anu,

That's a great idea too. Perhaps I should by one of those bars that hooks over the moulding on top of the door. I think my weight would break door jamb with one of those kind that screw-tighten against the door frame.
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:09 PM   #68
Jim Bathurst
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

I apologize for any information I repeat, I haven't gone back over all the pages!

I've had several clients come to me with zero pullups and I've gotten them all to do their first pullup (and oftentimes two, three, four or more in a row!) Here's what I've found helps.

First - start increasing your strength in the one arm rows! Rowing 1/3 your bodyweight for about 5 reps seems to be a good point in which my clients were getting their first chin-up.

Second - work on your grip! It really is that important. I found that a simple wrist roller like you use to use back in high school gym class works fairly well for waking up those muscles. Deadlifts can't hurt either.

Once you can lower yourself down under control from the top of a chin-up, you're pretty close to being there. I'd then rotate the following strategies with my clients.

Lower down slightly, then pull up to the top, then lower down more, then pull up. Continue until you can't move upwards anymore, then just lower down under control.

Lower down from the top of a pullup with added weight. It doesn't take much - 5-10 lbs is good to start.

Jumping into the pullup from a box, slowly lower the height of the box so there's less and less help from the legs and more stress on the arms.

When all these are looking strong. It's time to grip it and rip it! Get on a box that allows you to really wrap your hands around the bar, pick up your feet and immediately start to pull! Don't stop! You're there! Congrats!

After you get your first. Work singles as much as you can over the next several workouts. When you start getting tired, go back to jumping pullups.

Just my thoughts and experience on the matter. Hope it helps!

Jim Bathurst
www.BeastSkills.com
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Old 10-02-2008, 06:28 PM   #69
Stephen R. Lampl
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bathurst View Post
I apologize for any information I repeat, I haven't gone back over all the pages!

I've had several clients come to me with zero pullups and I've gotten them all to do their first pullup (and oftentimes two, three, four or more in a row!) Here's what I've found helps.

First - start increasing your strength in the one arm rows! Rowing 1/3 your bodyweight for about 5 reps seems to be a good point in which my clients were getting their first chin-up.

Second - work on your grip! It really is that important. I found that a simple wrist roller like you use to use back in high school gym class works fairly well for waking up those muscles. Deadlifts can't hurt either.

Once you can lower yourself down under control from the top of a chin-up, you're pretty close to being there. I'd then rotate the following strategies with my clients.

Lower down slightly, then pull up to the top, then lower down more, then pull up. Continue until you can't move upwards anymore, then just lower down under control.

Lower down from the top of a pullup with added weight. It doesn't take much - 5-10 lbs is good to start.

Jumping into the pullup from a box, slowly lower the height of the box so there's less and less help from the legs and more stress on the arms.

When all these are looking strong. It's time to grip it and rip it! Get on a box that allows you to really wrap your hands around the bar, pick up your feet and immediately start to pull! Don't stop! You're there! Congrats!

After you get your first. Work singles as much as you can over the next several workouts. When you start getting tired, go back to jumping pullups.

Just my thoughts and experience on the matter. Hope it helps!

Jim Bathurst
www.BeastSkills.com
Jim,

Some great suggestions. When you speak of one-arm rows, are you suggesting bent-over dumbbell rows, or one-are pull-ins (horizontal rows)?

Also, the rows are great grip builders! I speak with experience there!
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:41 AM   #70
Lou Cabales
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Re: The Dead-Hang Pull-up Society

my lats are sore from recently figuring out jumping p/u i have some jump stretch bands.

but wish i heard about this before:

mcmaster carr see product number 8848T32

ive heard of people using these with much success

$20 ish for 2 bands.

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=35433
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