CrossFitters vs Decathletes

[Justin McCallon]

Originally Posted by Shane Skowron

Agree with you on the muscle-ups and double unders. I disagree on everything else, since they're not very skill-based.

Snatches and OHS are exercises most athletes don't do b/c you get most the benefits from C&J. I know I've worked out with a lot of college fb players that can't squat snatch at all. The other stuff isn't that hard to pick up, but if you've never done it then just walking in and competing is not practical. The thing is that people that don't do CF almost certainly won't be doing all the exercises we do and it will eventually come out.

Um, I disagree. Most track athletes are trained in the clean and jerk and the snatch, as evidenced by their numbers. Technique is probably not better than a competitive weightlifter but most likely as good as a Crossfitter.

Agree on C&J in most programs. Disagree on snatch.

Right now there is no one in the Crossfit Games who can put up numbers like that.

His back squat and bench press would rank him first among the Games competitors, I think. And I think his clean would rank him second, behind Josh Everett.

Agree on back squat and bench, but those aren't tested. At the SE Regionals we had a clean every 50 sec event and I think 11 people hit at least 305. 2 hit 335. I'd guess people 10lbs higher. I also think rich fronnig, who hit 325, could run about a 5:00 mile (just a guess). I'm 210 and my PR at this weight is 5:50.

I think there's only a handful of Games competitors who can approach a 5:00 mile: Chris Spealler, James Fitzgerald, maybe Mikko Salo or Josh Everett but I'm not sure.

I would guess Spealler, OPT and Mikko are high 4's but maybe I'm wrong.

So if the CrossFit Games consisted of strength, power, and running endurance alone, Bryan Clay would clean house without any training. So yeah, I think with a few months of focused training he could finish among the top at the CF Games.

I think a few months is a short period to pick up all the peripheral adaptations while maintaining everything else and building muscle endurance.

[Justin McCallon]

Originally Posted by Steven Low

You actually have examples on the women's side of things.

Iceland Annie.... polevaulter.... never did much of any of the exercises. Was in 1st or 2nd until she got dropped by the muscle ups.

Lindsay smith.... decathlete.... never did CF until regionals last year. Made top 5.


Elite athletes would tear up the games pretty much... especially with specific training.

+ superior genetics.

As the stakes rise for the games (aka monetary prize for placing) you'll likely see more and more elite or former elite athletes trying to enter.

I do think the nfl, nba and top soccer players are a lot better at what they do than the top cfers are at cf since they have a bigger pool, the sports more fun, money is on the line, and they've been around longer. But I also think the women's events are not quite as close to their potential as the men's. That said, another athlete to add is Leah Polaski who played D1 soccer and then placed first in Georgia after a year of training. But, on the squat snatches in Regionals she had to power then OHS and it killed her (she tied for fourth and lost the tie breaker).

[S.S.]

Originally Posted by Justin McCallon

I would guess Spealler, OPT and Mikko are high 4's but maybe I'm wrong.

Not sure about Mikko, but I remember around the 2007 Games both OPT and Speal had 5:00 listed in their stats for the mile.

It's a shame the Games athlete profiles don't list the mile or any distance runs anymore. Sort of sends the message that it's not even important.

[Justin McCallon]

Originally Posted by Shane Skowron

Not sure about Mikko, but I remember around the 2007 Games both OPT and Speal had 5:00 listed in their stats for the mile.

It's a shame the Games athlete profiles don't list the mile or any distance runs anymore. Sort of sends the message that it's not even important.

Agree on the mile time. I also don't think they ask for any rowing PRs.

I would expect that Spealler improved significantly from 2007. If you look at the numbers, every individual has improved substantially on the lifts each year. I'd expect their pure cardio times are improving as well.


By the way, I bet a lot of these debates could be settled pretty easily. Has anyone really tried getting in touch with a high level decathlete or soccer/basketball/football/rugby player or mixed martial artist? I bet it's not that hard nowadays, especially for the decathlete. Maybe we could convince one to workout at an affiliate and do a few workouts.

[Katherine Derbyshire]

Originally Posted by Justin McCallon

I would expect that Spealler improved significantly from 2007. If you look at the numbers, every individual has improved substantially on the lifts each year. I'd expect their pure cardio times are improving as well.

Why? Wouldn't increased specialization in the lifts tend to reduce pure cardio performance? Especially since the Games have had a very clear strength bias the last few years. If I were a competitor, I know what my priorities would be.

Katherine

[Aushion Chatman]

This debate is really apples and oranges...

Elite Decathleters have been around for a VERY long time. Elite Crossfitters...we still haven't established where the TOP LEVEL is IMO.

It's like saying how would the strongest high schoolers (CF'ers) in America compete against the strongest college students (Deca's)...There's a larger more watered down level of fitness in high school athletes, and a much more polished group of athletes in the college ranks.

Why would you pit an established sport's best against a VERY NEW sport's best. This is year 4 of the CF Games...

If you put what Eric, Steven, Shane, and some others have been saying together you wind up with this.

As the CF Games mature and the $$ increases to drive people to train for the CF Games, we will see better and better athletes start to CHOOSE CF as a sport.

A lot of the top CF'ers are like some of the MMA guys...they come from other sports like football and take up another sport they can still compete at, after they can no longer compete on the field... When the level of competition in CF rises to the level of the guys that could STILL be competing on the field, then you can start pitting CF'ers vs Deca's.

[Mauricio Leal]

Check out the Chatting With Eleiko CFJ video (wfs). At 7:48 the interviewer talks with a former olympic decathlete who happens to work at Eleiko, and he shares his views on how/why Decathletes compare to elite CFers.

[Justin McCallon]

Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire

Why? Wouldn't increased specialization in the lifts tend to reduce pure cardio performance? Especially since the Games have had a very clear strength bias the last few years. If I were a competitor, I know what my priorities would be.

Katherine

Well most everyone's "Fran" times have dropped considerably if you compare individuals from one year to the next.

People are getting better at everything.

[Katherine Derbyshire]

Originally Posted by Justin McCallon

Well most everyone's "Fran" times have dropped considerably if you compare individuals from one year to the next.

People are getting better at everything.

True, and the competition is getting much tougher.

Although how much of the Fran improvement is due to increased strength? I'm not sure a better Fran necessarily translates to a faster mile.

Katherine

[Justin McCallon]

It might not translate to a better mile and admittedly the improvements are partly due to improved peripheral adaptations, but I'm sure people are improving peripheral adaptations as far as running goes as well. BUT, the point is that people are working on cardio crap and not just getting stronger. The individuals that have been in the Games have been getting better across the board.

I really doubt that strength increases matter much at all on the guy's side. My pull-up strength went from +120 to +190 and it hasn't had much of an affect on my "Fran" time (with all other factors, aside from pressing/squatting strength, which has improved, to be about the same).