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Old 05-31-2012, 06:36 PM   #11
Mike Jenkins
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Less=More when it comes to heavy compound movements.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:52 PM   #12
James Davidson
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew N. Casey View Post
first of all, we need more info. what is your age? what is your percent bodyfat? what are your goals? what program are you following? (or do you just make up your own programming?) what is your diet? what supplements do you take? what does a typical training week look like? (all lifts, met-cons, sports, cardio, etc)

i also have a couple of additional questions about the lifts. how are you lifting? are you wearing a belt, knee wraps? Are you squating ATG or just to parallel? Do you bounce hard out of the bottom of your squat? and on deadlift, do you use any straps or grip assistance? what is your sticking point on deads? is your grip an issue? is it hard to get it moving? or do you have trouble locking it out? Have you tried different deadlift stances and positions? and what shoes are you wearing when you squat? when you deadlift?

i also agree with the other comments that you probably have way too much volume and are overtraining. if you are squatting 4-5 days a weeks and deadlifting 2 days a week, and you are doing it on different days, that means there are no rest days?

the best bet is to post a video of squat and deadlift and we can provide better feedback.

also, depending on your age and years of experience, you may be wise to find a good coach because you very well may have the genetics to compete at a very high level.
24 years old been lifting off and on for the last few years usually never more than 4 months straight at a time but now I am motived to stay in the gym, 18%BF, right now my goals is just to get stronger pretty vague I know but I play intramural sports (flag football and basketball) and it helps me.

I am lifting with no belt, no wraps (ordering knee sleeves soon), and I do not use and lifting straps. I was on starting strength, then I did crossfit for a couple of months, then I did GSLP, now I am just doing squats, deads, press(bench and seated), and power clean skill work.

Typical Week looks like
Day 1
Squat 5x5, last workout was at 585lb(sumo)
Bench 5x5 275lb
Clean - Skill work 3x5 185

Day 2
5 mins rower
Squat singles(sumo) 225, 405, 495, 585
Seated Press 5x5 245lb
Deadlift warmup then 1x10 385lb

Day 3
Squat HBBS 5x5 405lb
Core work for 20 mins
Squat Cleans - 205lb 3x5

Day 4
Squat singles(sumo) 225, 405, 495, 585, 615
Bench 5x5 285
Deadlift 5x5 365

Day 5
Cleans 3x10 165lb focusing on form
Front Squat 225 3x10
Seated Press

I squat to parallel. No bounce, just slow and controlled. My weak point on deads is getting it moving off of the ground, if I get it off of the ground I make it to lockout never had a problem once it is off the ground. I do not feel it is a problem with my grip strength though. I have tried sumo and regular stance deadlifts no real difference for me. I wear my Inov 8 bare xf 210s for all my workouts. Occasionally I will wear my Romaloes for cleans and front squats.

I rest 2 consecutive days where I do nothing but foam roll. And I foam roll before and after every workout.

That was last weeks workout but it is similar to that most weeks. Sometimes I do not do squat singles if im short on time.

I drink half a gallon a day of whole milk, 12 eggs for breakfast(right after workout) I juice about 8 servings a day of fruits/veggies. Lunch is usually steak or chicken breast about 8oz, with a cup of white rice. Dinner is usually 8oz of chicken or salmon and a cup of pasta. Protein shake right when I wake and right before sleep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Wintczak View Post
Volume and over-training aside, you're at a BW of 202 and you HBBS 580lbs and you can only DL 450? Something is way out of wack. I mean you must be doing something right to get your squat numbers up so high but something doesn't compute here for me.

I don't mean that in an insulting manner either. When you say you have problems getting it off the floor, does your grip fail or, and as silly as this is about to sound you're just not "strong" enough to pull it?
It feels like I am not strong enough to pull it. And I feel like something does not compute for me either which is why I am seeking advice.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:57 PM   #13
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Post some videos of your heavy squats and your deadlifts, anything we say right now would just be speculation...well, anything aside from pointing out that it's not the best idea to do 5x5 deadlifts or to deadlift twice per week.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:16 AM   #14
Harish Shetty
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

You need to put up a video , period.

Your program has 6th & 7th day off ???

As per your program you squat everyday, all your squat sessions looks intense.

Deadlifting on the same day as squat, Infact deadlift is your 3rd movement of the day. As per this program deadlift is not your priority. You are ok with what ever numbers you get.

How do you expect deadlift numbers to go up, look at the fatigue you build before deadlifting.

You need to prioritize your movement.

You need commit a fresh day for deadlift ,this should be your first movement of the day followed by some accessory movement. you can do some speed squats too on this day. but better avoided.

Don't do deadlift after your squat day reason kind of squatting you do your posterior chain must be getting smoked , give a day or two break.

Please focus on some accessory work and also reduce the squat volume.

Hope this help.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:27 AM   #15
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jenkins View Post
Less=More when it comes to heavy compound movements.
what makes you qualified to comment on strength? (read extreme sarcasm.. LOL)


oh, this...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater

link WFS
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:47 AM   #16
Rebecca Roth
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew N. Casey View Post
what makes you qualified to comment on strength? (read extreme sarcasm.. LOL)


oh, this...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater

link WFS
But what's his Fran time?!
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The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack in will. - Vince Lombardi
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:19 AM   #17
Lincoln Brigham
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

If someone is squatting more than they deadlift and has trouble getting their deadlifts started, I'd be very surprised if they weren't squatting high. Very surprised.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:50 AM   #18
Mike Jenkins
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca Roth View Post
But what's his Fran time?!
LOL My first WOD once I started training at my affiliate was Fran. It was 2 weeks after the Arnold so I was hovering around 390-395 bw...finished in 5:20
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:09 AM   #19
Joshua Straiton
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jenkins View Post
LOL My first WOD once I started training at my affiliate was Fran. It was 2 weeks after the Arnold so I was hovering around 390-395 bw...finished in 5:20
Awesome. Mike, you are the man.

45 Pullups at 390?? Insane.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:53 AM   #20
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: Getting Deadlift closer to Squat Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Davidson View Post
24 years old been lifting off and on for the last few years usually never more than 4 months straight at a time but now I am motived to stay in the gym, 18%BF, right now my goals is just to get stronger pretty vague I know but I play intramural sports (flag football and basketball) and it helps me.

I am lifting with no belt, no wraps (ordering knee sleeves soon), and I do not use and lifting straps. I was on starting strength, then I did crossfit for a couple of months, then I did GSLP, now I am just doing squats, deads, press(bench and seated), and power clean skill work.

Typical Week looks like
Day 1
Squat 5x5, last workout was at 585lb(sumo)
Bench 5x5 275lb
Clean - Skill work 3x5 185

Day 2
5 mins rower
Squat singles(sumo) 225, 405, 495, 585
Seated Press 5x5 245lb
Deadlift warmup then 1x10 385lb

Day 3
Squat HBBS 5x5 405lb
Core work for 20 mins
Squat Cleans - 205lb 3x5

Day 4
Squat singles(sumo) 225, 405, 495, 585, 615
Bench 5x5 285
Deadlift 5x5 365

Day 5
Cleans 3x10 165lb focusing on form
Front Squat 225 3x10
Seated Press

I squat to parallel. No bounce, just slow and controlled. My weak point on deads is getting it moving off of the ground, if I get it off of the ground I make it to lockout never had a problem once it is off the ground. I do not feel it is a problem with my grip strength though. I have tried sumo and regular stance deadlifts no real difference for me. I wear my Inov 8 bare xf 210s for all my workouts. Occasionally I will wear my Romaloes for cleans and front squats.

I rest 2 consecutive days where I do nothing but foam roll. And I foam roll before and after every workout.

That was last weeks workout but it is similar to that most weeks. Sometimes I do not do squat singles if im short on time.

I drink half a gallon a day of whole milk, 12 eggs for breakfast(right after workout) I juice about 8 servings a day of fruits/veggies. Lunch is usually steak or chicken breast about 8oz, with a cup of white rice. Dinner is usually 8oz of chicken or salmon and a cup of pasta. Protein shake right when I wake and right before sleep.



It feels like I am not strong enough to pull it. And I feel like something does not compute for me either which is why I am seeking advice.
i think your program needs major improvement. and since you still didn't state which program you are following i must assume you made this up on your own. if you want to squat, dead, press, bench, power clean, and pullup only then there are plenty of programs out there that will work for that. GSLP, 5/3/1, CFFB, etc. if your main concern is just pure strength then westside would also work very well for these movements.

at your current height, weight, BF%, and based on the other info you have given, i find it very hard to believe that your squats are parallel. either that or you have some sort of serious mental block or some kind of crazy wierd form issues. post up a video ASAP.

also, you diet looks very short on carbs.

your dead / squat numbers are not the only numbers that don't seem to match up. your front squat and HBBS are very low compared to your squat. your clean numbers are crazy low. your seated press is almost as much as your bench. i would also be curious to see your press on video. if you take out your squat and press numbers, and look at just your dead, HBBS, front squat, bench, and clean then your numbers make alot more sense, which again leads me to believe the issue is with the sumo squat and press and not the deadlift.

however, in regard to the deadlift and improving it, regardless of the squat, your current deadlift habits need major change. you should never be doing heavy sets of 10. and doing 5x5 is not good either. back the volume down. do one all out heavy set of 5 or less. if you want to do another deadlift day, try doing speed pulls with 75% of your max for mulitple sets of singles or doubles one other day. and do your deads first if you want to focus on improving them. and post up a video of your deads ASAP too.

i also don't see any other back work, which could be a big part of your problem on deads, cleans, bench, and front squats. a weak upper back will limit all of these. add in some weighted chins, dumbbell rows (kroc rows), or barbell rows (i like the pendlay row version) a few times a week and get your lats, traps, and upper back really strong.

adding in things like sprints and jumps to make sure your speed / CNS / power is high will also help.

once you get all this stuff fixed, and rule out bad programming, diet, and form... then you may have to add in assistance work like snatch grip deadlifts, elevated straight leg RDL's, GHD, etc.
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