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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-16-2008, 08:31 PM   #1
Steve Shobert
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The hierarchy of training for mass?

Can someone please explain the logic in this: (from FAQ section 1.6)

Here is a hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
1. Bodybuilding on steroids
2. CrossFitting on steroids
3. CrossFitting without steroids
4. Bodybuilding without steroids

My question is, if BBing w/ steroids builds more mass than Xfit w/ steroids, then how does Xfit w/o steroids build more muscle than BBing w/o steroids?
Shouldn't #3 and #4 be switched?

Thanks!
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Old 08-16-2008, 08:38 PM   #2
James Stone
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

I think it is pretty well explained right after that statement in the FAQ. There was also a pretty big thread on it. Don't recall the name, you could always search it.
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Old 08-16-2008, 08:45 PM   #3
Jared Ashley
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

This question has been debated (often not politely) on these boards in the past. I think the only thing everyone agrees on is that #1 is correct.

Wether CF or more traditional BB work is more efficient for BUILDING MASS without steroids can be debated, although I personally believe that BB, and even more importantly, eating to gain, is the better method. It should be noted that many, many CF'ers who desire to gain mass do so by taking a break from CF and doing the Starting Strength program, which is very much a novice BB (or powerlifting) program. So I tend to believe that yes, 3 and 4 should be switched.

To take is further, I question the placement of #2... I'm not sure we know how much effect steroids would have on a CF'er, but I DO know there are a few MASSIVE bodybuilding dudes that are drug-free.
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:54 PM   #4
Scott Mahn
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

Here's a 16 page thread (locked) on the topic:

WFS

http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=33913
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:54 PM   #5
Aushion Chatman
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

Think about the workouts we do with CF and the avg size of your avg crossfitter...and you should have your answer IMO.

Simply put, how many BB'ers are out there running the occassional 15k??
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Old 08-16-2008, 11:28 PM   #6
Steve Shobert
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

Thanks for the link guys! Looks like the main problem is simply the definition of "bodybuilding" ad "crossfit."
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Old 08-16-2008, 11:43 PM   #7
Victor Putz
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

Hm, I sorta thought the gist of the argument was that BB exercises were the right sort to stimulate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but the CF "whole body, large muscle groups" exercises were the right sort to stimulate neuroendocrine response and hormonal production; ie "CF without steroids" sort of makes its own steroids, so BB exercises benefit more from external steroids than CF does.
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:44 AM   #8
George Mounce
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

MODS PLEASE NOW!!!!

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Old 08-17-2008, 09:29 AM   #9
Steve Shobert
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Putz View Post
Hm, I sorta thought the gist of the argument was that BB exercises were the right sort to stimulate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but the CF "whole body, large muscle groups" exercises were the right sort to stimulate neuroendocrine response and hormonal production; ie "CF without steroids" sort of makes its own steroids, so BB exercises benefit more from external steroids than CF does.
but again, that all depends on your definition of "bodybuilding exercises." when I used to bodybuild, all I EVER did was compound lifts, in very brief, intense, and frequent sessions. I grew like a weed WITHOUT enhancement. but yes, the majority of BB routines are like beating a dead horse, there is excessive and unnecessary volume, with many isolation exercises.
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Old 08-17-2008, 12:15 PM   #10
Gavin Harrison
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Re: The hierarchy of training for mass?

Steve, right.. that's the idea I think. Popular bodybuilding techniques don't produce as much of a natural hormonal response as crossfit, however, good bodybuilding/strength training is superior for building muscle mass and strength.
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