CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-31-2008, 08:48 AM   #121
Scott Mahn
Member Scott Mahn is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Maplewood  NJ
Posts: 245
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq View Post
The best for what? GPP? Sports Performance for skill based sports? Endurance based Sports?
I'm asking you, you're the proponent of testing.
What is it you want the tests to substantiate?
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:07 AM   #122
Chris Walls
Affiliate Chris Walls is offline
 
Chris Walls's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Battleford  SK Canada
Posts: 1,722
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq View Post
You can compare them by having the adherents to both complete a battery of tests for which science has shown that they accurately and reliably measure real out comes of fitness. Why are cf'rs so afraid, or reluctant to put Cf up to the scrutiny of real research? Don't they more proof that it is a superior program?
Yes they measure the outcome, but what about all the variables of where the tested individuals started from. Did they follow identical diets? Do they have identical metabolisms? LBM? bf%?

Yes you can measure the outcomes very well, but without being able to take out every single possible variable, leaving ONLY the one variable we want to test (namely the different programs) then I would not fully be able to defend the winner, no matter which program it was. There are just too many variables. That's why I am satisfied with knowing that I am getting faster, stronger, better endurance, etc using CrossFit then I was getting the other ways I used to train.
__________________
Accept no excuses, only results
CrossFit North Battleford
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:09 AM   #123
Phillip Garrison
Banned Phillip Garrison is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mesa  AZ
Posts: 1,382
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Mahn View Post
I'm asking you, you're the proponent of testing.
What is it you want the tests to substantiate?
My opinion of what is the best program is irrelevant, I'm just one person, but personally I don't think there is one "best" program. But if I were to test cf I would test pretty much the things I listed, tests that measure strength, aerobic capacity, anearobic capacity, speed, agility, muscular endurance, and possibly eye hand coordination.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:11 AM   #124
Phillip Garrison
Banned Phillip Garrison is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mesa  AZ
Posts: 1,382
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
Yes they measure the outcome, but what about all the variables of where the tested individuals started from. Did they follow identical diets? Do they have identical metabolisms? LBM? bf%?

Yes you can measure the outcomes very well, but without being able to take out every single possible variable, leaving ONLY the one variable we want to test (namely the different programs) then I would not fully be able to defend the winner, no matter which program it was. There are just too many variables. That's why I am satisfied with knowing that I am getting faster, stronger, better endurance, etc using CrossFit then I was getting the other ways I used to train.
Diet and metabolism are irrelevant for many outcomes. How clean your diet is, has little effect on your ability to produce power on a force plate. Adjusting for variables is why we have statistics, and tests which have been validated under scrutiny, and by testing lots of different populations.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:16 AM   #125
Scott Mahn
Member Scott Mahn is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Maplewood  NJ
Posts: 245
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Garrisonq View Post
My opinion of what is the best program is irrelevant, I'm just one person, but personally I don't think there is one "best" program. But if I were to test cf I would test pretty much the things I listed, tests that measure strength, aerobic capacity, anearobic capacity, speed, agility, muscular endurance, and possibly eye hand coordination.
But to what end, and against what control? Is it, in the absence of such tests, your assumption that such measures will go down relative to the athlete doing no exercise and eating a poor diet? I'm sure it's not, so you must want to see how CF performs relative to another exercise program, right? So which one? Otherwise this notion of testing seems a like a phenomenal waste of budget and time. What are you trying to prove?
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:17 AM   #126
Chris Walls
Affiliate Chris Walls is offline
 
Chris Walls's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Battleford  SK Canada
Posts: 1,722
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

You're saying these tests are so good that diet doesn't affect how you perform on them? Diet affects how you perform on a math test for crying out loud, how could diet during training not have an effect on your progress, thus affecting your test?

I think I'm done here. We're just going in circles.
__________________
Accept no excuses, only results
CrossFit North Battleford
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:30 AM   #127
Phillip Garrison
Banned Phillip Garrison is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mesa  AZ
Posts: 1,382
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
You're saying these tests are so good that diet doesn't affect how you perform on them? Diet affects how you perform on a math test for crying out loud, how could diet during training not have an effect on your progress, thus affecting your test?

I think I'm done here. We're just going in circles.
I'm saying on many tests it will have little effect on the outcome, especially when you compare against other adherents of other training programs who are likely to have comparable diets.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:33 AM   #128
Chris Walls
Affiliate Chris Walls is offline
 
Chris Walls's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Battleford  SK Canada
Posts: 1,722
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

likely to have comparable...

Now that to me doesn't equate to "variable eliminated". Most programs are "likely to have comparable" levels of intensity, strength training, pulllups, pushups, situps, etc... so why bother doing the test at all? It shouldn't affect the test to any noticeable degree as long as all variables are "likely to be comparable"
__________________
Accept no excuses, only results
CrossFit North Battleford
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:34 AM   #129
Phillip Garrison
Banned Phillip Garrison is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mesa  AZ
Posts: 1,382
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Mahn View Post
But to what end, and against what control? Is it, in the absence of such tests, your assumption that such measures will go down relative to the athlete doing no exercise and eating a poor diet? I'm sure it's not, so you must want to see how CF performs relative to another exercise program, right? So which one? Otherwise this notion of testing seems a like a phenomenal waste of budget and time. What are you trying to prove?
How can I see how it compares to other programs, if we do not compare the two programs? Using the WOD's vs, whatever the other program does will not give you very good criteria for comparison. If diet is such a issue for you, then do a test in which they both do the zone diet, or paleo, or whatever. It's funny that only on here do people seem to think it's impossible to compare Cf to other programs on certain outcomes without exact diets, yet the scholarly journals are full of data on various training protocols that can be compared to other training protocols, regardless of diet.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 09:35 AM   #130
Phillip Garrison
Banned Phillip Garrison is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mesa  AZ
Posts: 1,382
Re: Studies to confirm/prove CrossFit efficacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
likely to have comparable...

Now that to me doesn't equate to "variable eliminated". Most programs are "likely to have comparable" levels of intensity, strength training, pulllups, pushups, situps, etc... so why bother doing the test at all? It shouldn't affect the test to any noticeable degree as long as all variables are "likely to be comparable"
Do you believe a CF'r will do better than a specialist at a task/sport neither have done before? Or is over all more fit then the specialist?
 
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Efficacy of the false grip? James Rebesco Exercises 4 07-11-2008 03:29 AM
Efficacy of running downhill? Elliot Fuller Fitness 15 03-08-2008 11:13 PM
"I'm too tall for _____." (prove me wrong!) Matt Smiley Fitness 13 01-11-2007 05:15 PM
Efficacy of fish oils Taha Mohamedali Nutrition 3 09-17-2006 10:40 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:48 AM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.