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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 02-26-2007, 05:35 PM   #1
Becca Borawski
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Someone asked Poliquin on T-Nation to name exercises he thought were stupid and dangerous and he named dbell cleans and snatches - even included a photo of Dave Leys of all people!

This is a link to the article - as far as work and family safe, it's T-Nation, so click at your own risk:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1470868
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:34 PM   #2
Jesse Woody
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I read that earlier, and his reasoning seems shaky at best. The idea that the diameter of the plate pulls the weight farther from your center of mass is kinda' silly, as it seems to stay closer to your center than a barbell version of the lift. He even added the picture of Paul Chek to prove that point, showing that it almost stays perfectly in line with the frontal plane through the entire movement!

I can buy the idea that the elbows/wrists might take a beating, but I feel this is only due to an improper ramp-up to the loads these people are using and poor coaching on proper technique. If you are catching the clean correctly, you are doing so at the apex of the line of travel of the load, thus negating any real ballistic nature to the catch, per-say. This makes the rack not much different than the same position in the overhead press.

To each their own, and Poliquin is usually pretty knowledgeable in his field, but I know plenty of successful coaches (Mike Boyle, Ross Enamait, Charles Staley, etc. etc. etc.) who have implemented dumbbell Olympic lifts with good results. This, combined with the fact that I've seen the results myself in my own clients makes me lean more towards "One of the most important tools in my tool-box" rather than one of the most useless!
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:16 PM   #3
Jason Steele
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:deadhorse:

As Einstein said, "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"
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Old 02-27-2007, 09:26 AM   #4
John Seiler
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"even included a photo of Dave Leys of all people!"

Yeah, another not so subtle CF dig. Ah well.



"How do you know [Greg Glassman] is a witch?"
-"Aww, [he] turned me into a newt. [pause] I got better."


(Message edited by john_seiler on February 27, 2007)
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:14 AM   #5
David Werner
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DB and KB cleans, jerks and snatches are all excellent exercises. Especially DB snatches and cleans. I've trained many many people with those movements and have not seen any of the troubles Polliquin listed. As Jesse said DBs are EASIER to keep in the frontal plane than other weights.

It's sort of flatteriing that David Leys gets used to illustrate the DB snatch - when you need to steal pictures of folks doing functional movements the crossfit community is a great place to find them.

Dave Werner
Crossfit North
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:37 AM   #6
Mike ODonnell
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Even called out Paul Chek....I like his stuff.

Comes to this:
You want strength only.....BB is the way to go. You get more loading and a real power movement from it.

DB however have a fantastic role as a huge metabolic drive. Can you get some strength from it? Absolutely. Is is better for beginners, sure.

So...
Strength maxed with BB
Metabolic Boost maxed with DB

Optimal real life health and fitness....has a place for both.
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:49 PM   #7
David Aguasca
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all i can think of when i read people calling DB snatches "stupid and dangerous" is ross enamait hang power snatching a massive dumbell. and he's one of the fastest, best conditioned athletes i've ever seen.
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Old 02-28-2007, 01:03 PM   #8
Dan Ensing
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David,

I've seen that video of Ross. IIRC he put together a program to increase muscle mass but still stay athletic and explosive. Here's the video (safe)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57pv_1j4dH0

Dan
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:20 PM   #9
Sean Manseau
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so many great ideas in that video! what did we ever do without teh internets?
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:40 AM   #10
William Hunter
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you're so right Sean. Thank you Al Gore!

Ross is a monster, and of course CF has their own stable of beasts. I would love to see Ross go head-to-head in some of the benchmarks with Greg A, Josh and all the bad mofos. I'd pay to see that action!
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