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Old 01-14-2011, 04:52 AM   #11
Darryl Shaw
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Re: ketosis

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Originally Posted by Clara Giffin View Post
Lower my BF% , so at the CF facility they suggest to go under Ketosis until I get leaner. He suggest to to this for a month : No fruit at all, and so forth. But I follow The Paleo Evolution diet /recipes that I can see includes fruit and sweet potatoes. I can tell you that my strengh is getting better everyday and I have a lot of energy but still I haven't lost any fat.
You do not need to cut carbs or be in ketosis to burn fat and get lean. Indeed following the advice you've been given will make it harder for you to lose weight as depleted glycogen stores will make it impossible for you to train effectively thereby reducing the number of calories burned through exercise. In addition to this reducing your carbohydrate intake by cutting fruit and vegetables from your diet will reduce your intake of the vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, fibre and antioxidants that are essential for good health. In the short term this will increase your risk of upper respiratory tract infections, which will impact on your ability to train, and in the long term it will increase your risk of developing some serious chronic diseases including cancer.

AIS Sports Nutrition Factsheet - Weight loss. (wfs)
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:00 AM   #12
Tamara Cohen
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Re: ketosis

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Originally Posted by Clara Giffin View Post
Lower my BF% , so at the CF facility they suggest to go under Ketosis until I get leaner. He suggest to to this for a month : No fuit at all, and so forth. But I follow The Paleo Evolution diet /recipes that I can see includes fruit and sweet potatoes. I can tell you that my strengh is getting better everyday and I have a lot of energy but still I haven't lost any fat.
I dislike this advice. A lot. There is no reason you should have to go into ketosis in order to lower your bodyfat percentage. What is your current height and weight?
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:21 AM   #13
Deb Weber
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Re: ketosis

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You do not need to cut carbs or be in ketosis to burn fat and get lean. Indeed following the advice you've been given will make it harder for you to lose weight as depleted glycogen stores will make it impossible for you to train effectively thereby reducing the number of calories burned through exercise. In addition to this reducing your carbohydrate intake by cutting fruit and vegetables from your diet will reduce your intake of the vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, fibre and antioxidants that are essential for good health. In the short term this will increase your risk of upper respiratory tract infections, which will impact on your ability to train, and in the long term it will increase your risk of developing some serious chronic diseases including cancer.
I think this is absolutely correct. There's no "magic" bullet for diet IMHO. I eat around 3kcals+ a day, and trouble keeping my weight up to 150. One thing I learned from the Paleo experience is MY BODY NEEDS CARBS. I wouldn't get too caught up in paleo dogma. You wont explode into stardust if you eat a little brown rice or oatmeal. Just eat good food not processed junk. You can try diff things but you're the one who decides what works best for you.
The bottom line is make your food your medicine and make your medicine your food. It really can be that simple!! good luck.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:01 AM   #14
Meghan Reid
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Re: ketosis

Agree with everyone here actually with a small caveat to what Deb is saying. Some people can handle brown rice and oatmeal. Of all the grains they are far from the worst ones you can eat, and they're far from the worst FORMS of grain you can eat. Especially if you are eating them in their whole form.

That being said, there is absolutely no reason at all to avoid vegetables and very little reason to avoid fruit. I am cutting fruit right now because I am cracked out on sugar and trying to stop my sugar cravings, and I find that fruit exacerbates them (replacing a cookie with a peach, for example). But I have ZERO problem with fruit for what it is. And I have conscientiously been making up my carbs with vegetables and tubers.

What was your diet like before you started eating Paleo? You said you've been doing it for 6 weeks. What kind of training are you doing now - strength biased training, mainpage WODs - can you give us a few days of eating and workouts?

Here's the thing. Changing your diet? Results don't happen overnight. I didn't stop eating cookies and immediately jump from a 160# deadlift to a 235# deadlift, there's no reason why your body fat (or Fran time) would drop that quickly either. Figuring out how your body processes food and what combination of what types of foods effectively fuels your body and makes you happy is an instinct that we as a society have completely lost, and it's a work in progress for everyone on this board to figure out exactly how to redevelop that instinct. Hence why you'll see people that are successful on:

A) all meat, no vegetables, no fruit
B) A little bit of everything
C) Paleo, no tubers
D) Mostly paleo, some oatmeal
E) Paleo + dairy
F) Paleo + ice cream specifically
G) Paleo + beer

So - my suggestion would be to get your body where you want it: train hard, eat to support that training, and body composition will follow. And be patient.
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Last edited by Meghan Reid : 01-14-2011 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:28 AM   #15
Darryl Shaw
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Re: ketosis

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Originally Posted by Meghan Leigh Ramos View Post
Here's the thing. Changing your diet? Results don't happen overnight. I didn't stop eating cookies and immediately jump from a 160# deadlift to a 235# deadlift, there's no reason why your body fat (or Fran time) would drop that quickly either. Figuring out how your body processes food and what combination of what types of foods effectively fuels your body and makes you happy is an instinct that we as a society have completely lost, and it's a work in progress for everyone on this board to figure out exactly how to redevelop that instinct. Hence why you'll see people that are successful on:

A) all meat, no vegetables, no fruit

B) A little bit of everything
C) Paleo, no tubers
D) Mostly paleo, some oatmeal
E) Paleo + dairy
F) Paleo + ice cream specifically
G) Paleo + beer
It would be impossible for an athlete to be successful on an all meat diet with no fruit or vegetables and they certainly wouldn't be healthy.

Quote:
So - my suggestion would be to get your body where you want it: train hard, eat to support that training, and body composition will follow. And be patient.
That's good advice, particularly the last part - be patient.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:47 AM   #16
Ben Kissam
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Re: ketosis

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
It would be impossible for an athlete to be successful on an all meat diet with no fruit or vegetables and they certainly wouldn't be healthy.
Although it's definitely not the healthiest thing you can do, I know people who are successful on a nearly all meat diet. There are also people on this board who do a similar style of eating. It definitely is possible.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:22 AM   #17
Jason Halm
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Re: ketosis

Regarding the all-meat diet, it can be healthy if you eat an array of offal and things that most people now don't eat
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:39 AM   #18
Meghan Reid
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Re: ketosis

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
It would be impossible for an athlete to be successful on an all meat diet with no fruit or vegetables and they certainly wouldn't be healthy.



That's good advice, particularly the last part - be patient.
I didn't say "athletes". I said "people". There are obviously people out there whose goals are being met by eating this kind of diet, or else there wouldn't be people advocating for it.

Also, maybe it didn't come across the right way, but this list was more to address how far the distance is between different eating styles - it's not meant to be an exhaustive list of possible diets.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:32 AM   #19
Rebecca Roth
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Re: ketosis

When I was first starting out I was also focused on hitting ketosis to lose fat. If you plan to do this, you will not be successful if you aren't tracking everything you eat, days I had apple pieces, pepper strips, or even 4 dates (which I loved) as a snack, would put me over on carbs just through normal eating without any real carby items like sweet potatoes... so I would have to very carefully map out or adjust accordingly what I would have for the rest of the day. You easily hit 20-30g carbs just through nuts and non-starchy veggies, so it requires a true effort to stay around there consistently.
I really had no problems with fatigue or recovery while I was doing this, so it is possible you won't have the issues folks mentioned here, but alot of people cannot go no carb without feeling that way.

For me ultimately I decided that trying to hit ketosis consistently wasn't for me because the effort required is not worthwhile for the fairly minimal improvement on leaning that I saw. I am doing CF and paleo with a goal/focus of health (though I am overweight and would certainly like to lose, that isn't my priority), and I am of the opinion that a healthy diet includes a great deal of variety in the fruits and veggies that you consume, and for me trying to be in ketosis got me far away from that, to the point that I was virtually only eating green veggies, and my daily meal plan started to look very much the same day after day.

Really its down to you figuring out what works for you and what your priorities, and then making that happen, Ketosis may or may not really be the way to go for you (especially if your diet was bad before, simply going paleo is likely to make a great difference as it is). However as I noted, if you really feel this is the way to achieve your goal, but aren't carefully tracking your carbs you most likely will not be successful.
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:24 PM   #20
Geoff Archibald
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Re: ketosis

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Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
You do not need to cut carbs or be in ketosis to burn fat and get lean. Indeed following the advice you've been given will make it harder for you to lose weight as depleted glycogen stores will make it impossible for you to train effectively thereby reducing the number of calories burned through exercise. In addition to this reducing your carbohydrate intake by cutting fruit and vegetables from your diet will reduce your intake of the vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, fibre and antioxidants that are essential for good health. In the short term this will increase your risk of upper respiratory tract infections, which will impact on your ability to train, and in the long term it will increase your risk of developing some serious chronic diseases including cancer.

AIS Sports Nutrition Factsheet - Weight loss. (wfs)
From reading Paleo for Athletes it sounded like the body will eventually switch to a ketogenesis dominated energy system instead of requiring glycogen and that there are no adverse side effects. There is a period of fatigue while the body makes the transition but after it is complete it should be sustainable. That book was written primarily for endurance athletes and I guess that ketosis might be beneficial for them if it increases the efficiency of converting fat to energy since they are going for long periods of time in purely aerobic effort. Might not be so good for the sprinter. I don't know if there's any truth in that and I could be way off in my interpretation since I have a very basic understanding of the body.

As for the advice given to the OP, it sounds like someone made a leap from "Ketosis burns fat" to "Ketosis will make you lose fat". It's more complex than that and fat loss depends on more than just the carb content of the diet.
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