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Old 02-04-2009, 08:27 AM   #21
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I'm going to give you four contacts of training soldiers and cops who have used CrossFit in their schoolhouse. Each has clear data making the case for the significantly increased efficacy, efficiency, and safety of CrossFit. Each case is entirely typical of CrossFit implementations everywhere.

The first is Major Wade Rutland. He brought CF to the Canadian Forces and was one of two officers who oversaw the experimentation and implementation at the Canadian Infantry School. From this experiment CrossFit has found it's way across all Canadian Forces.

The second in Major Jon Barba of Colorado State Patrol. He brought CF to the State Patrol academy where it has been the PT curriculum for years now where fitness is dramatically improved and PT injury is virtually non-existent.

The third is Staff Sergeant Matt Kostielney. He implemented CrossFit at the Marine Sniper Scout School. His trial improved fitness and reduced injury and wash out rate dramatically. There was no Rhabdo where it had regularly factored into the washout rate.

The fourth is Ensign Andy Stumpf. He implemented CrossFit at BUD/S Phase II. CrossFit is now part of BUD/S curriculum by name. Improved fitness, no PT rollbacks, and no PT injuries set 17 year records (the entire period data had been collected).

Criticisms of CrossFit's efficacy, efficiency, and safety cannot be supported by data collected anywhere and in every case the source of these criticisms is a competing civilian contracting business. Where CF has been tested, and those administering the test have had to show their data and put their name to the effort, the story has been the same - improved efficacy, efficiency, and safety over all other previous efforts, programs, or training. All of the criticisms of this program are anecdotal, accusatory, and conjectural, they haven't even risen to the easy scientific standards of a hypothesis. The scientific evidence is squarely, perfectly, on our side.

Each of these gentlemen has had personal and extensive experience with the political nonsense that this thread is about.

If anyone wants more contact agencies contact us. If you have data to offer contact us.

Thank you.
Old 02-04-2009, 08:38 AM   #22
Sean Dunston
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Originally Posted by Jason Lopez-Ota View Post
In the Air Force paper the other day there was a picture of a bunch of Air Force men and women doing CrossFit in an Air Force gym. I am not 100% sure but I think it is a CrossFit-specific gym.
Trainers from CrossFit Alexandria have been leading WODs at Bolling AFB for over a year. Less than a month ago, Andrews AFB opened a new "tactical fitness center," with the same trainers from CrossFit Alexandria running the WODs.

My understanding is another very large military base in the DC Metro area is looking to implement CrossFit as well.

Article about Bolling AFB - wfs

Article about Andrews AFB - wfs
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:55 AM   #23
Max Zerba
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Most of the email traffic is from civilians. I assume fitness center managers. I assume most of these are NSCA certified or the like. Do you think they may have an interest in banning crossfit? My real questions is, "what do they have a problem with?" Most of the crossfit movements are not unique to crossfit. Are they going to prohibit all weight lifting, running, rowing, body weight exercises (pull ups, push ups, setups, squats etc). If I were still in the AF, and they banned crossfit or came out in opposition to crossfit workouts, I would take the 5k WODs and anything that combined running push ups and sit ups to my commander and refuse to take my fitness test because it was against AF policy.
I'm not happy until you're not happy.

Last edited by Max Zerba : 02-04-2009 at 09:10 AM.
Old 02-04-2009, 09:28 AM   #24
John C. Brown
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I think that banning CrossFit at this point would be near impossible. First off, from what I can tell the first of the major shipments of Op Phoenix Gear are on their way to or already arrived at their final destination. If each Marine unit has the equipment as the program was designed to do, then no "FCM" or fitness (right) center manager would be able to control what Marines do out side of their Fitness centers.

Two, with Andy leading the charge (and an up hill battle it was, Andy deserves a ton of credit for not giving up) at the NSWC, the Navy is not likely to ban CrossFit, again outside of it's Fitness (more laughable than the MC by a long shot) Centers.

Finally, even if there were a movement among the upper echelon of officers (which there isn't) to remove any trace of CrossFit methodology or protocol from the rank and file would be folly. The soldiers, marines, airmen and sailors have now grasped the value that the program carries to them as the fighting force. No general is going to tell them that they aren't allowed to do it. They may (which I sincerely doubt will ever happen) say that they can't do it on base, but no one will stop the truly motivated from getting to a facility.

Coach, I appreciate your tact on this. When someone (the military in this case) looks for a professional opinion on something they go to who they think of as experts. As has been the case for several years now those experts have had their collective identity and stature challenged by something better. Just as they didn't have the wherewithal to continue to make a better product, they also lack the integrity and fortitude (not to mention blatant science) to see this fight through. Whatever you need, we are here.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:29 AM   #25
Louis Hayes
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Coach, As I previously stated in our emails...

There is definitely a difference between officially adopting and endorsing, versus support and participating on the user level.

Few government organizations will officially adopt or accept a brand-name program. Especially an organization that cannot have the strict oversight, administration, supervision, and logistics in place necessary to limit liability and injuries that any fitness program requires. It's the government. It has rules in place. The safe answer: Ignore it. Endorse nothing. Close your eyes. Some agencies have taken the risk of CF and made huge strides in their academy recruits, tactical units, and other divisions. These are not limited to anecdotal experiences.

But the reality paints a different picture. Take my tactical unit, my PD, and the local LE community at large. Big support of functional fitness (read:CrossFit). The momentum is gaining speed here in Chicagoland. Affiliates are popping up all over. The "users" are participating. So does my unit or PD endorse it? Not exactly. But it doesn't prohibit it. Nor can it. It allows it to occur...and generally likes the results it produces. It likes the attitude and character it nourishes as much as the physical realm.

Injuries will always occur no matter what the brand name label is. Accept it. It's part of doing business. We do the best we can to limit those injuries. Isn't that the best we can do? And with bad press, the same thing for government to do is distance themselves from the program. Typical liability-limiting..isn't that expected. Deal with it.

Lastly, (WFS) is from a good friend in New York. I think we'll all enjoy his remarks...

To put out a blanket statement that says SWAT, LE, or MIL is abandoning CF is ignorant. Maybe those who make such remarks do not have their finger on the same pulse I do...on the veins of USERS.

Louis Hayes
In hoc signo vinces!
blog: Trinity Training Group (blog).

Last edited by Louis Hayes : 02-04-2009 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Added link to post.
Old 02-04-2009, 09:45 AM   #26
Giles Clarke
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
As far as the military goes, the
Marine Corps is going away from it and so is the Navy.
This is not even remotely true. Quite the contrary, the Marine Corps is actually moving closer to CrossFit every day.
I just spent the past 3 years as a Series and Company Commander in the Recruit Training Regiment at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island. During that time, we restructured the recruits’ physical training regimen to bring it much closer in line with CrossFit doctrine.
Long, slow distance runs were replaced by shorter, high intensity workouts. Thrusters, air squats, KB swings and burpees were all added into the mix.
This resulted in far fewer lower extremity injuries (shin splints, sprains, etc) over the course of a training cycle and increased performance across our measured spectrum.
I’m speaking anecdotally, but there is quantifiable evidence to back it up. Every training cycle is monitored closely by civilian athletic trainers who capture all data beginning with the recruits’ Initial Strength Test all the way through their final Physical Fitness Test (PFT). The numbers do not lie; CrossFit works.
I challenge anyone to take a walk through Camp Lejeune, Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms or any other Marine Corps installation between the hours of 1100-1300 or after 1700. You will, undoubtedly, find scores of Marines swinging kettle bells, thrusting barbells, or sprinting along the road. During working hours, abandoned gymnastics rings dangling from pull-up bars are the tell-tale signs that CrossFit is in practice.
Just this past year, the Marine Corps instituted the Combat Fitness Test (CFT) to supplement our current PFT. Where the PFT measures standard fitness via pull-ups, sit-ups and a 3 mile run, the CFT measures functional fitness via a series of timed combat- related events. Each of these events is rooted firmly in the same functional physical training that CrossFit teaches.
If not for the Marine Corps, I never would have known about CrossFit. If not for CrossFit, I would not currently be in the best shape of my life.
Old 02-04-2009, 09:55 AM   #27
Tim Luby
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I don't really think it's cool how things went down here. Coach, with all due respect you didn't have to divulge these people's identities and insult him like that.

I understand you're ****ed, but...
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:08 AM   #28
Andrew Durham
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Originally Posted by Jason Lopez-Ota View Post
In the Air Force paper the other day there was a picture of a bunch of Air Force men and women doing CrossFit in an Air Force gym. I am not 100% sure but I think it is a CrossFit-specific gym.
Jason you are right. I saw a recent piece on AFN (Armed Forces Network) News where CF was being perfomed in an Air Force gym. I thought it was great. I wish that when I was in the AF CF was more known than it is. I would have much rather learned about CF instead of the pointless routine that I was doing.
Old 02-04-2009, 10:49 AM   #29
Barry Cooper
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I have my NSCA CPT Certification. It's useless. The whole thing, in my view, soup to nuts, is about lawsuit protection. The NSCA can say that, somewhere in their book, they told you not to do whatever dumb thing you did. But I never demonstrated I was not a brain in a jar somewhere taking the test from Planet Pluton, other than physically showing up at a test site with an ID. They didn't demand I know squat about squatting, and their programming, as stated, was conservative and oriented not around effectiveness, but defensibility.

I interviewed for a Personal Trainer position with an ACSM fellow. I left with two absolute convictions: his clients made little or no progress; and they were never going to, since he knew everything there was to know about the subject, and that's all there was to it.

What I see here is fear. Naked, sweat soaked fear. CrossFit is selling itself. It's growing like a virus within the hallowed walls so recently controlled by lab coated Ph.D's, secure in their status and position. And it's growing despite the fact that they don't understand it, didn't prescribe it, and in general appear incapable of describing it.

When people start gunning for you: that's progress in my book.
Old 02-04-2009, 11:08 AM   #30
David Vessey
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?


Again, excellent to see you weigh in on this. This is excellent material, along with your comments about Mr. Wing (?) from the National War College lectures. Makes me want to push even more for "combat fitness program" workouts from PSP staff. Maybe I'll have a chat with Maj Rutland.
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