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Old 02-05-2014, 11:34 AM   #11
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

My head hurts.

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Old 02-05-2014, 11:47 AM   #12
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

What confuses me is that crossfit claims you will get much better gains doing crossfit then bodybuilding unless ur on steroids yet most ppl advise beginners to focus on a strength programme before ever doing crossfit! I think personally i would prefer to do strength full body 3x a week and conditioning on the 2 off days, I think this would get me bigger faster and would help improve fitness a little

Trouble is my trainer is adamant i stick to the current programme
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:04 PM   #13
Jeff Simon
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
What confuses me is that crossfit claims you will get much better gains doing crossfit then bodybuilding unless ur on steroids yet most ppl advise beginners to focus on a strength programme before ever doing crossfit! I think personally i would prefer to do strength full body 3x a week and conditioning on the 2 off days, I think this would get me bigger faster and would help improve fitness a little

Trouble is my trainer is adamant i stick to the current programme
I dont know if Crossfit has ever claimed "better gains" over bodybuilding. I'm not quite sure what that even means.

If you want to acquire "gains", pick a strength program, eat, and exercise some patience.

There's nothing wrong (in my opinion) with doing two or three 8-12 metcons during that week, but dont go overboard and burnout in a month.




In reference to your workout yesterday, a 5/3/1 deadlift session followed by five rounds of five power cleans, front squats, back squats, push presses and more deadlifts at moderately heavy weights is just irresponsible programming from your coach (again, my opinion)
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:07 PM   #14
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
What confuses me is that crossfit claims you will get much better gains doing crossfit then bodybuilding unless ur on steroids yet most ppl advise beginners to focus on a strength programme before ever doing crossfit! I think personally i would prefer to do strength full body 3x a week and conditioning on the 2 off days, I think this would get me bigger faster and would help improve fitness a little

Trouble is my trainer is adamant i stick to the current programme
No intelligent people take that claim seriously.

If you're going to mix strength and conditioning, I'd recommend doing your conditioning after your strength work rather than on a rest day. That way your rest days fulfill their primary function of allowing you to recover and come back stronger.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:17 PM   #15
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Simon View Post
I dont know if Crossfit has ever claimed "better gains" over bodybuilding. I'm not quite sure what that even means.

If you want to acquire "gains", pick a strength program, eat, and exercise some patience.

There's nothing wrong (in my opinion) with doing two or three 8-12 metcons during that week, but dont go overboard and burnout in a month.




In reference to your workout yesterday, a 5/3/1 deadlift session followed by five rounds of five power cleans, front squats, back squats, push presses and more deadlifts at moderately heavy weights is just irresponsible programming from your coach (again, my opinion)
Why do you say it was irresponsible? The 5 deadlifts were handy as the weight was light in comparison to what i was deadlifting for strength but for everything else it was moderately heavy!!
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:23 PM   #16
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
No intelligent people take that claim seriously.

If you're going to mix strength and conditioning, I'd recommend doing your conditioning after your strength work rather than on a rest day. That way your rest days fulfill their primary function of allowing you to recover and come back stronger.
Based on that , does that imply it would be best to train twice a day , then have the following day off as oppose to training 2 days in a row , or lets say you train 5 days week mon - fri , would it be best for recovery to just train twice mon, take tuesday off, twice wednesday, take thursday off etc

Because thats what i initially thought, I was planning on summit like , Mon morning : full body strength and metcon in the evening , then next day off, same wednesday then thursday off etc so if be working out 6 times a week but having a total of 4 days recovery every week
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:31 PM   #17
Jeff Simon
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Keith Molloy View Post
Why do you say it was irresponsible? The 5 deadlifts were handy as the weight was light in comparison to what i was deadlifting for strength but for everything else it was moderately heavy!!
It's the 5x5 BS/FS/PP/HC after a 5/3/1 + 5x5 DL I have a problem with.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:47 PM   #18
Andrew N. Casey
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Simon View Post
I dont know if Crossfit has ever claimed "better gains" over bodybuilding. I'm not quite sure what that even means.
indeed they did, and do.

still item 1.5 in the FAQ on mainpage

"1.5. Will I/can I get big doing CrossFit?
If you train the WODs hard, and eat right and get lots of sleep, you will definitely gain lean mass, lose fat, and yes, you can build muscle mass with the crossfit protocol. More specifically, according to Coach,
Here is a hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
1. Bodybuilding on steroids
2. CrossFitting on steroids
3. CrossFitting without steroids
4. Bodybuilding without steroids
The bodybuilding model is designed around, requires, steroids for significant hypertrophy.
The neuroendocrine response of bodybuilding protocols is so blunted that without "exogenous hormonal therapy" little happens.
The CrossFit protocol is designed to elicit a substantial neuroendocrine whollop and hence packs an anabolic punch that puts on impressive amounts of muscle though that is not our concern. Strength is.
Natural bodybuilders (the natural ones that are not on steroids) never approach the mass that our ahtletes do. They don't come close.
Those athletes who train for function end up with better form than those who value form over function. This is one of the beautiful ironies of training. "


also, see this recent article posted... link is WFS

http://games.crossfit.com/article/tr...ng-performance
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:53 PM   #19
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Simon View Post
It's the 5x5 BS/FS/PP/HC after a 5/3/1 + 5x5 DL I have a problem with.
But your not explaining why you have a problem with it??
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:55 PM   #20
Keith Molloy
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Re: Simple question that i should of asked all along?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew N. Casey View Post
indeed they did, and do.

still item 1.5 in the FAQ on mainpage

"1.5. Will I/can I get big doing CrossFit?
If you train the WODs hard, and eat right and get lots of sleep, you will definitely gain lean mass, lose fat, and yes, you can build muscle mass with the crossfit protocol. More specifically, according to Coach,
Here is a hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
1. Bodybuilding on steroids
2. CrossFitting on steroids
3. CrossFitting without steroids
4. Bodybuilding without steroids
The bodybuilding model is designed around, requires, steroids for significant hypertrophy.
The neuroendocrine response of bodybuilding protocols is so blunted that without "exogenous hormonal therapy" little happens.
The CrossFit protocol is designed to elicit a substantial neuroendocrine whollop and hence packs an anabolic punch that puts on impressive amounts of muscle though that is not our concern. Strength is.
Natural bodybuilders (the natural ones that are not on steroids) never approach the mass that our ahtletes do. They don't come close.
Those athletes who train for function end up with better form than those who value form over function. This is one of the beautiful ironies of training. "


also, see this recent article posted... link is WFS

http://games.crossfit.com/article/tr...ng-performance
I dont get that though, Natural bodybuilders are far leaner and bigger then most if not all crossfitters?
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