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Old 03-29-2013, 10:48 AM   #1
Adam Fisk
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Snatch fail @ 185

Here's a failed attempt at 185.

http://www.coachseye.com/BHjy if you have trouble viewing I can upload it to youtube.

My thoughts: need to keep my back a little tighter and possibly widen my grip. The bar made contact too low in the pocket. I am not sure why I have a slight jump forward but it kind of annoys me. Also some more external rotation when I receive the bar. Any other opinions?
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:17 PM   #2
Brad Allen Jones
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

Be more patient and try to stay out over the bar longer. You starting getting your knees under the bar too early which is probably why it hit you so low and you ended up being forward.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:38 PM   #3
Marcus Allen
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

It seems to me that your back is too flat from the start. While your hips and shoulders start to rise at the same time, you hit the top of your legs and your back is still very flat. This is probably causing you to swing the bar out as you try to achieve an upright torso.

So...at the start, drop your hips and get your chest up. Keep your chest up as long as possible and be sure your hips and shoulders rise together.

Watch Dimas here wfs skip to about 1:15 to see the lift.

If you pause at 1:23 just as he initiates the pull you can see very clearly what I'm talking about.

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Old 04-02-2013, 11:56 AM   #4
Nick Horton
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

Nice all around. That lift is sooooo close to being rock solid.

You probably do need to widen your grip. But I'm only say that because statistically, the VAST majority of lifters I coach (either in the gym, or in my seminars) have too narrow a grip. I can't see yours here, because of the plates being in the way and the angle.

I would suggest you slow the bar down from the floor. The acceleration curve (the graph of the change in speed) of the bar should be the OPPOSITE of deadlifts. That is, for most people, a deadlift starts off the floor as fast as you can yank it, then it slows down as you hitch and stream and spit to get that bar up.

On an olympic lift, the bar starts slow, then as it comes into the hip, it speeds up and up and up.

It's actually an exponential curve. AKA, go slow as all hell for as long as you can (about 2 inches from hip), THEN explode like a maniac. (That's over-simplified, but as a cue works really well.)

That alone will often fix the "jumping forward" problem for most beginners.

As for getting your shoulders to stay over the bar longer, I agree with that in principle, but I like a different cue.

The reason I don't tell lifters to "stay over the bar" (though true) is simply because they will almost always take that SOOOOOO literally, that they focus on pushing the shoulders forward, which causes the body to shift forward, and they come off the heels, and the entire lift ends up going forward... AKA, jumping forward is assured.

Instead, I like to tell people to get the hips UP and BACK as high as they can and KEEP THEM THERE for as long as you can. Biomechanically, this does the exact same thing. That's the point of saying stay over the bar... to be in a particular body position that includes the hips being high and back, the knees being back, the bar being pulling close to the body by the lats, and (relatively) the shoulders being over the bar.

To ME, the important thing is making sure that when you do this (what looks a heck of a lot like an RDL position when the bar is at the knee cap)... you don't fall forward onto the balls of the foot. Because once you do THAT... you're boned, LOL

Drive the hips high and back as you move the bar up... really focussing on the "back" part so that your weight stays on the heels - hard on the heels - to prevent the forward leaning tendency.

Combine that with keeping the bar slow from the floor to (almost) the hip... and then exploding like a crate of TNT will make you both stronger, faster, and in a better position all around.

This is all detail work that is only appropriate to you because you're clearly more advanced than many people starting out. I really like a lot of what I'm seeing on this.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:00 PM   #5
Sean M Hutchinson
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
Here's a failed attempt at 185.

http://www.coachseye.com/BHjy if you have trouble viewing I can upload it to youtube.

My thoughts: need to keep my back a little tighter and possibly widen my grip. The bar made contact too low in the pocket. I am not sure why I have a slight jump forward but it kind of annoys me. Also some more external rotation when I receive the bar. Any other opinions?
I think that whole double tap thing might have thrown you off. Get set and commit to the lift. Your technique is not bad.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:09 PM   #6
Christopher Morris
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

This looks like a solid lift. Good extension, good turnover to get under the bar, good receiving position.

I think the little hop forward is not a huge issue. Definitely better than a hop backwards. At least when you hop forward your heels are more likely to be under the weight of the bar when you receive.

I have two opposing ideas here. Either a pause or not pausing might have saved this lift.

First - was this a mental failure? Did the weight of 185# in an OHS position feel too heavy? There is the slightest forward travel of the bar after you received it, and you give up and dump it before it was truly beyond saving. If you can stabilize and be patient for one beat, feel solid in mind and body, then STAND UP, you would have had it. If I go frame by frame, that little forward travel of the bar starts with a softening of the shoulder position. So you're right about needing more confidence with external rotation.

Second - rather than a pause, keep that bar always moving up. If your extension is good to make that bar feel weightless, you may want to take advantage of that moment. The key is to turnover and get under that bar in a stable, solid OHS position quickly. Start to stand up from the OHS position while the bar is still weightless and traveling up.

Like this. (wfs) When done correctly it makes heavy snatches look easy.

If you rush that, however, you get the common error of the hips rising too soon, and you'll end up chasing the bar. (wfs)

What I see is that you turnover, lock-out, then move DOWN some to receive the bar at the bottom of the squat. If you can lock out under the bar and move UP, it's a more efficient movement.
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Last edited by Christopher Morris : 04-02-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:12 PM   #7
Sean M Hutchinson
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

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Originally Posted by Christopher R Morris View Post
This looks like a solid lift. Good extension, good turnover to get under the bar, good receiving position.

I think the little hop forward is not a huge issue. Definitely better than a hop backwards. At least when you hop forward your heels are more likely to be under the weight of the bar when you receive.

I have two opposing ideas here. Either a pause or not pausing might have saved this lift.

First - was this a mental failure? Did the weight of 185# in an OHS position feel too heavy? There is the slightest forward travel of the bar after you received it, and you give up and dump it before it was truly beyond saving. If you can stabilize and be patient for one beat, feel solid in mind and body, then STAND UP, you would have had it. If I go frame by frame, that little forward travel of the bar starts with a softening of the shoulder position. So you're right about needing more confidence with external rotation.

Second - rather than a pause, keep that bar always moving up. If your extension is good to make that bar feel weightless, you may want to take advantage of that moment. The key is to turnover and get under that bar in a stable, solid OHS position quickly. Start to stand up from the OHS position while the bar is still weightless and traveling up.

Like this. (wfs) When done correctly it makes heavy snatches look easy.

If you rush that, however, you get the common error of the hips rising too soon, and you'll end up chasing the bar. (wfs)

What I see is that you turnover, lock-out, then move DOWN some to receive the bar at the bottom of the squat. If you can lock out under the bar and move UP, it's a more efficient movement.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
please tell me you aren't actually coaching people and telling them this...
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:44 PM   #8
Brad Allen Jones
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

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Originally Posted by Sean M Hutchinson View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
please tell me you aren't actually coaching people and telling them this...
2nd that.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:06 AM   #9
Christopher Morris
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

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Originally Posted by Sean M Hutchinson View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
please tell me you aren't actually coaching people and telling them this...
Nope, I'm not a coach. So educate me about the hop.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:59 AM   #10
Sean M Hutchinson
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Re: Snatch fail @ 185

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Originally Posted by Christopher R Morris View Post
Nope, I'm not a coach. So educate me about the hop.
Ok, good. To keep it simple jumping back is ok, jumping forward is almost always bad and not jumping forward or back is ideal. Usually jumping forward is a clear sign that the pull is bad either getting on the toes too early, not bringing the bar into the hips, etc.

The only time i've seen jumping forward with a good lifter is usually one of the top international lifters who are lifting near world records and at this point I think they can overcome a bad pull because they are so strong. For us normal folks if our pull is off and we kick the bar out front the odds are against us for saving the lift. So what needs to be focused on is getting the bar back into the hips and weight flat footed, elbows up and out, before triple extension and pulling under the bar. Even then you might see a slight jump forward depending on how hard somebody pelvic thrust the bar because they have not been taught how to extend upwards during the snatch and clean.
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