CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > Community > Community
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Community Catch all category for CrossFit community discussion.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2010, 11:00 AM   #11
Stephanie Long
Member Stephanie Long is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Rafael  CA
Posts: 6
Re: Faster Half Marathon

I totally agree that strength training and speed/interval work definitely make me faster.

But where I think the CFE program misses the boat is with two things:

1) Distance runners LOVE to run long distances. It's why we do it. We love it, we think it's fun. We're not trying to "get out of" miles. We don't dread putting in a XX-mile week. We don't just do it blindly, because convention says so. It's in our blood. It makes us happy.

I myself am considered a "low milage" girl in the world of running, but honestly, the pleasure I get from a good 60-minute trail run in the wilderness is nearly second to none. To devise a training program that eliminates the very thing I love -- well, it's going to be hard to stick to.

2) From my experience, in order to get faster at a particular race (in this case the half marathon), you have to run your race distance, because you have to know, understand, and remember what it feels like mentally and physically to complete it. You have to know how to get over that mental breakdown at mile 10. You have to know whether or not you feel "fresh" enough to overtake a runner ahead of you. You have to know whether or not the group has started out too fast for you, or too slow. You have to know how much you have left in the tank at the end to push. These are things you can only learn by running & racing the half marathon many times.

I think it's a mistake not to run your race distance at least once building up to the race. CFE might make you physically capable of doing it, but there's more to racing than just being physically capable. At least in my opinion.

Thoughts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 07:20 PM   #12
Josh Groves
Member Josh Groves is offline
 
Josh Groves's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Woodlands  TX
Posts: 134
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Stephanie,

You have addressed a point that I have encountered from one of my athletes who loves to run distance. He loves it because he goes on a long run and just gets in rhythm and then the world disappears and he is at peace.

That said, as far as I'm concerned, do it. Understand that this is going to affect the rest of your training and plan accordingly. I'm no guru in this area (yet!) but I think that you are absolutely correct with having to like your program.

If you're set on keeping the distance training in, you'll probably want to keep the number of CrossFit WOD's to twice a week and two days of CF Endurance with one day of distance.

You could train something like this:
M: CrossFit WOD, 3+ hours later CFE WOD
T: Rest
W: CrossFit WOD
R: CFE WOD
F: Rest
S: Distance
Su: Rest

I'm going to be attending a CrossFit Endurance certification later this month and I'll try to remember and message you if I get some insight from Brian Mackenzie about athletes that love long training and how to incorporate that with his programming ideas.
__________________
CF-L1, Movement & Mobility, Endurance
Blog: PeakHumanPerformance (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 07:45 PM   #13
Nic Kirkland
Member Nic Kirkland is offline
 
Nic Kirkland's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Terre Haute  IN
Posts: 427
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Josh is right. A less than ideal program that you like is going to be more effective in the long run than an ideal program that you makes you wake up every morning dreading working out.

The CFE prescription is 1 long, continuous effort per week, the time trial/tempo run. The best compromise for you would be to use that up on your distance day. If you look at their programming the TT/tempo day is often a 5k/10k or 40/60 minute effort.

And, if you wanted to go one step farther you could do a time trial AND a tempo run each week. Note that a time trial is an all out effort, usually for a set distance, and tempo runs are longer, continuous effort at a slightly backed off intensity. I would still do 2 intervals/week supplemented with CF for GPP. Perhaps a modified template would then look something like:

M: CF and CFE interval
Tu: Time Trial
W: Rest
Th: CF and CFE interval
F: CF
Sa: Tempo
Su: Rest

This is similar to Josh's suggestion, but I threw one extra CF WOD in there. CFE as a program is designed to work when it is backed up by CF 4-6x per week, so even 3x is less than ideal, but will still be effective. If all you do is CFE endurance WOD's 3-5x week, you will be disappointed as you will not have the strength and anaerobic conditioning to maximize your intensity in their WOD's and your training will suffer.

Try to avoid doubling up on days where you have a Tempo or Time trial workout.

I do understand your desire to run, I go through the same thing myself. I don't run races to be competitive. I run races because they're fun.

You just have to decide which is most important, running a ton of miles or maximizing your race performance while maintaining the health of your body. CrossFit makes a lot of it's diet being anti-inflammatory, but all that is for naught if you are engaging in chronic LSD cardio as that will just jack up your cortisol levels.

As for the mental thing- I did my first ever race last June, a 5K, and then a half-marathon in November. I did that on very little volume and finished much stronger than I started. In the last 4 miles or so I got a definite second wind while most of the folks around me were starting to hit the wall. I credit that mostly to CrossFit.

You want to talk about mental toughness, do Kelly, Murph, or a SealFit WOD. After a WOD like that, a little leg fatigue after an hour of jogging is nothing. That's one of the things I love about CrossFit, is it is not only incredibly demanding mentally, but also physically. You want to do a workout that will seriously mess with your mind, do the CFE Tabata sprints on the treadmill. If you can do those as Rx'd the first time around, you've got no worries about hitting the wall on the home stretch.
__________________
M/22/5-11/205

Last edited by Nic Kirkland : 05-05-2010 at 07:49 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 09:10 PM   #14
Stephanie Long
Member Stephanie Long is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Rafael  CA
Posts: 6
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Crossfit definitely gives you mental toughness, no doubt about it.

But there's a difference between mental toughness and a race strategy. You really can only develop a race strategy through experience. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

Josh, that's a pretty good week's setup you have lined out. Thanks!

I think I'm going to put together a weekly setup that might work for me, and post it here, and if you or Nic or anyone else wants to comment on it, feel free. It's probably not going to be fully CF, but there will definitely be CF, intervals, and speed. Intervals are the only way to get faster, and to get better at intervals, you have to have strength.

Anyway.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2010, 09:45 PM   #15
Nic Kirkland
Member Nic Kirkland is offline
 
Nic Kirkland's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Terre Haute  IN
Posts: 427
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie Long View Post
But there's a difference between mental toughness and a race strategy. You really can only develop a race strategy through experience. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
I definitely agree, but I think the best experience for that is going to come from races, not long training runs. I think you'll agree that there is a big difference between mile 12 on a training run by yourself or with a training partner or two versus mile 12 surrounded by other racers and cheering fans.
__________________
M/22/5-11/205
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2010, 10:16 AM   #16
Josh Groves
Member Josh Groves is offline
 
Josh Groves's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Woodlands  TX
Posts: 134
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic Kirkland View Post
I definitely agree, but I think the best experience for that is going to come from races, not long training runs. I think you'll agree that there is a big difference between mile 12 on a training run by yourself or with a training partner or two versus mile 12 surrounded by other racers and cheering fans.
No kidding, I wish there were more spectators for mountain biking events. The courses don't really lend themselves to it though, with the exception of the start/finish line.
__________________
CF-L1, Movement & Mobility, Endurance
Blog: PeakHumanPerformance (WFS)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 09:57 AM   #17
Jonathan Yoon
Member Jonathan Yoon is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Algona  WA
Posts: 378
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic Kirkland View Post
I definitely agree, but I think the best experience for that is going to come from races, not long training runs. I think you'll agree that there is a big difference between mile 12 on a training run by yourself or with a training partner or two versus mile 12 surrounded by other racers and cheering fans.
I got to disagree with you there. Long solo efforts teach the body to be more self-reliant. For the person who is chasing down a faster time, being able to skip aid stations in favor of carrying your own stuff (too many people slow down/stop and treat aid stations like a vacation spot) can be the difference between qualifying for Boston, NYC, Western States, etc. A fully supported event is good for training as well, but neither method is superior to the other since they both have pros and cons...so the answer is to do both. Solo runs to learn self-reliance and figure out how much water/food you need to go so far AND actual race events to learn how to pace & draft off of others and feed off the positive vibes of the race participants.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 11:24 AM   #18
Ross Waller
Member Ross Waller is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta  GA
Posts: 90
Re: Faster Half Marathon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie Long View Post
Crossfit definitely gives you mental toughness, no doubt about it.

But there's a difference between mental toughness and a race strategy. You really can only develop a race strategy through experience. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

Josh, that's a pretty good week's setup you have lined out. Thanks!

I think I'm going to put together a weekly setup that might work for me, and post it here, and if you or Nic or anyone else wants to comment on it, feel free. It's probably not going to be fully CF, but there will definitely be CF, intervals, and speed. Intervals are the only way to get faster, and to get better at intervals, you have to have strength.

Anyway.
There is a lot of information in this thread, but don't be afraid to pick and choose what YOU want. The reason runners love running, is not simply to reach a destination, but the path that leads them there. The same is true of achieving performance goals. Explore different workouts and plans, and base your judgments off of your results AND how you feel.

If it feels wrong, change it. If the results don't come, you'll always have another goal you can set.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Half Marathon? Bobby Smith Fitness 10 01-07-2010 06:09 PM
to half (marathon) or not... Ted Apollo Fitness 44 09-02-2008 07:22 AM
PR Half Marathon Jeremy Thiel Testimonials 1 11-21-2005 11:09 AM
Half-marathon Andrew Trueblood Testimonials 3 09-26-2005 04:20 PM
Half Marathon David Easton Competitions 2 08-11-2005 09:29 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.