CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > Community > Community
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Community Catch all category for CrossFit community discussion.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-15-2009, 04:39 PM   #21
Craig Massey
Member Craig Massey is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Papakura  Auckland
Posts: 323
Re: Dot com versus local

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Freedman View Post
Craig:

This is one of the most astute posts on bulletin boards I have ever seen.

Bottom line: whatever its frustrations and limitations, this board still serves a purpose, especially for newbies.. For some people, the law of diminishing returns kicks in after a few months. They move on. Or they start hanging more at affiliates or special events...and less on the board. Which is fine.
Thank-you.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 05:01 PM   #22
Ryan Hoegner
Affiliate Ryan Hoegner is offline
 
Ryan Hoegner's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Corona  CA
Posts: 783
Re: Dot com versus local

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wilhelm View Post
I was responsible to transferring all of the messages on our old message board system to this new platform. It was non-trivial. But my hope that was by offering a better search interface, that a lot of the golden nuggets on the board would be liberated from a crufty platform. I'd say that vision remains unrealized.
Ron,

Did you guys look at the ZeroForum software? VW Vortex uses it, which is the largest autotomtive forum on the net. The search function is the best I have ever used.

Sorry for the OT
__________________
www.CrossFit714.com
Orange, CA
 
Old 12-15-2009, 06:46 PM   #23
Dale F. Saran
CrossFit Staff Dale F. Saran is offline
 
Dale F. Saran's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Westerly  RI
Posts: 559
Re: Dot com versus local

Craig's dead-on, IMO. It's hard to repeat for every crop of newbies the answers to questions that seem blindingly obvious or that could be found with a very quick search. I felt that debt of gratitude for some time, but ultimately, the Boards just overwhelmed my patience. I think the realy hard part for CF, ,maybe exacerbvated, is that the growth has been so rapid that there's never been time for a "bridge" generation between the old guard and the newbies now. I'm riffing here, but it seems to me the half-lives here are such that people moved on (burned out answering obvious questions) before a sizable new crew could take that on and pass it along.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 05:03 AM   #24
Nick Wilson
Departed Nick Wilson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Newcastle  Tyne and Wear
Posts: 66
Re: Dot com versus local

I think many of the "old guard" moved on (or were forced to moved on) for reasons other than burnout answering obvious questions. I also think that many of the newer folk with the potential to be the "people who give a sh*t" are ironically the very ones most likely to become disillusioned by the way certain issues are dealt with on these boards and by CFHQ in general.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 06:55 AM   #25
Ewen Roth
Member Ewen Roth is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Geneva  Switzerland
Posts: 205
Re: Dot com versus local

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Wilson View Post
I also think that many of the newer folk with the potential to be the "people who give a sh*t" are ironically the very ones most likely to become disillusioned by the way certain issues are dealt with on these boards and by CFHQ in general.
This is precisely why keeping HQ and affiliate affairs as separate as possible is in everyone's best interest. If people equate CF primarily with their local affiliate and things go smoothly at that level, they will be more likely to pony up at some point for HQ certs, which is where the real money is. Likewise, as long as local CFers don't care about or are unaware of HQ/.com shenanigans or whatever, affiliates can keep attracting clients while taking advantage of the CF banner and avoiding any sort of guilt by association.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 07:54 AM   #26
Nick Wilson
Departed Nick Wilson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Newcastle  Tyne and Wear
Posts: 66
Re: Dot com versus local

That's an interesting post Ewen, because it sounds like you're saying that the best approach for affiliates is to distance themselves from HQ - or at least, to not encourage their clients to look beyond the affiliate - lest those clients be exposed to HQ's "shenanigans" (great word!) I completely agree; if I were an affiliate I'd be embarrassed by what's happened recently and would hate for my clients to be exposed to it. However, this sounds a lot like some advice that was given at an infamous recent summit, and it really didn't go down very well with HQ...

Your line about clients ponying up for certs is particularly interesting. You're right that certs are where the "real money" is - for HQ at least. But the affiliate gets nothing. So essentially we've got a situation where affiliates should do their own thing and not drive their clients towards HQ (i.e. they do all the work themselves and essentially stand on their own two feet), in the hope that those clients then go and drop a wedge of cash on a cert for HQ to pocket? Not a great deal for the affiliate.

The problem as I see it is that CFHQ wants to keep as much control of the affiliates as possible (without appearing to, as this isn't a franchise after all), but affiliates are best served by keeping control themselves. And the more HQ tries to stamp its control on people (or punishes those it feels step out of line, whether by moderating their comments out, banning them from the forums, or revoking their affiliation), the more the affiliates will want to keep their distance.

Of course, a better idea might be for HQ to stop with the shenanigans in the first place, so that people didn't get so p*ssed off and the affiliates didn't have to feel the need to avoid any "guilt by association". If instead of complaining about "detractors" or trying to repaint the world without them, HQ would instead listen to and accept their points (or rebut them with facts instead of rhetoric / insults / spin), everyone would benefit. Sadly, it seems that HQ are unable or unwilling to listen to even constructive criticism so I really don't see this happening.

Apologies in advance if I've just got this thread closed; I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but it's a fairly obvious picture. If HQ really can't stand the thought of this stuff being discussed, then the problems are even worse than they currently appear.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 09:09 AM   #27
Dale F. Saran
CrossFit Staff Dale F. Saran is offline
 
Dale F. Saran's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Westerly  RI
Posts: 559
Re: Dot com versus local

No, Nick, but it would be nice if you had actual facts to back up your claims. One of my favorite lines from law school (ever) by a law professor regarding argument:

"Whenever someone says 'clearly', or 'obviously', or 'self-evidently' - everything that follows that is totally unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable. If it weren't, you wouldn't need those words."

Since I don't recall you being on the cc: lines for any of the emails I had back and forth with Robb and Greg, or present for any of the stuff that led up to the BBS (I don't know if you were there for that), or otherwise involved in CF for the last 4 years, I'm wondering what you "know" so irrefutably? This isn't spin - this is an opportunity for both of us to grow if you've got something to offer beyond unsubstantiated hyperbole.

Now, my guess is, however, given your tone and lack of facts, that you don't care to be convinced of anything because you already "know", but I'm willing to listen and discuss this like adults. Let's give it a try.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 09:31 AM   #28
Ewen Roth
Member Ewen Roth is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Geneva  Switzerland
Posts: 205
Re: Dot com versus local

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale F. Saran View Post
This isn't spin.

OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Wilson View Post
So essentially we've got a situation where affiliates should do their own thing and not drive their clients towards HQ (i.e. they do all the work themselves and essentially stand on their own two feet), in the hope that those clients then go and drop a wedge of cash on a cert for HQ to pocket? Not a great deal for the affiliate.

I'm not saying it's ideal. However, I assume most affiliate owners want or need to keep HQ happy, or at least appeased. If they were really standing on their own two feet, maybe they wouldn't need CF attached to their name. Or maybe they just don't feel strongly enough about things to want to deaffiliate and have to explain to their members why.

In any case, they can keep a low profile and focus on their local market, without actively discouraging their members from attending the new nutrition cert, for example. And unless they have the in-house expertise to offer high-quality seminars themselves, whatever money their members spend on HQ certs isn't really a loss of revenue for them. So these affiliates can keep doing their own thing without obstructing the flow of revenue to HQ. And everybody's happy.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 09:35 AM   #29
Nick Wilson
Departed Nick Wilson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Newcastle  Tyne and Wear
Posts: 66
Re: Dot com versus local

Dale, to quote one of Glassman's recent tirades, that's "poor reading". Want to try again, and look for me using the words 'clearly', or 'obviously', or 'self-evidently' anywhere?

Guess what - you won't find them. Because I didn't use them. But you're trying to put them in my mouth, so that you've got an angle from which to disagree. If you'd care to read my posts through again with a less argumentative mental stance, you'll see me talking about appearances, my opinion, my view, and what things seem like to me. Not talking in absolutes and not trying to imply any inside knowledge.

What I'm talking about is the visible, public fallout from what's gone on, not the events themselves; and that IS something I can comment on, because I can see it myself, as can anyone else. Nowhere do I allude to hidden knowledge or imply I know the inner workings of everything. I'm commenting on the perception that more and more people are getting thanks to the visbile actions that HQ are taking. And your last post is a perfect example - you're not willing to discuss things civilly or entertain for a second that there might be any merit in it at all, you simply dismiss it with a wave of the hand and a quick "you don't know all the facts so STFU".

As for "unsubstantiated hyperbole" - hardly. Are you saying that no-one's comments have been moderated for being at all critical of Crossfit? Because I've seen them appear then disappear from the main page, the affiliate blog, and have had my own posts removed. Are you saying that people haven't been banned from the forums for criticising? Because I've seen people be banned for just that (even for comments they made on other forums, and for comments that don't violate the AUP of these forums). Hardly unsubstantiated, hardly hyperbole, and these are "actual facts" - even though I made no claims that need backing up.

So I'll say it again. If you'd accept that some criticism can sometimes be valid and constructive, instead of seeing it as a personal affront or dismissing it with a knee-jerk reaction, then you'd have a chance to improve things. I said I didn't think HQ was capable of this, and on your latest showing, it seems I may have been correct.

Finally, if you want to throw quotes around, I'll paraphrase your favourite since you like it so much: "Whenever someone says 'it's not spin' - everything that follows that is spin. If it weren't, you wouldn't need that disclaimer."

If you'd like to comment on what I actually wrote, instead of twisting it out of recognition so you can respond to what you wish I'd written, then I'm all ears. Otherwise, this is going to be quite pointless.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 10:06 AM   #30
Wil Vicinus
Affiliate Wil Vicinus is offline
 
Wil Vicinus's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Philadelphia  PA
Posts: 173
Re: Dot com versus local

(post deleted)
__________________
CrossFit South Philly
www.crossfitsouthphilly.com

Last edited by Wil Vicinus : 12-16-2009 at 10:09 AM. Reason: Decided to stay out of it.
 
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No local affiliate Benjamin Herrick Starting 1 06-25-2008 09:34 PM
local versus organic produce Ashley Hibbitts Nutrition 4 06-25-2008 05:17 PM
Local seminars Charles Steven Ossenheimer Fitness 3 01-18-2007 10:55 AM
The local gym Frank M Needham Equipment 14 07-09-2006 06:55 AM
Dot and Square drills Aptdwler Exercises 0 04-04-2004 10:19 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.