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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 05-09-2005, 05:32 PM   #41
Richard Belloff
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"You need strong lats for a big punch."

Actually, you don't. What function does the lat perform? It brings the arm back and down!

Hmmm, how does that propel my hand and arm faster and stronger towards the target?

Hmmm, explain please.

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Old 05-09-2005, 06:29 PM   #42
Stephen Troy
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Richard, among other things it has to do with the "leakage" principle of transferring power. I would have said "back" rather than specifically "lats," but it is true. Generally, weak backs can't punch.
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Old 05-09-2005, 07:06 PM   #43
Richard Belloff
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"Generally, weak backs can't punch."

That is an assertion and an interesting one. Tell me, when is the last time a back threw a punch?

Seriously, tell me now the lats propel a punch. This might be a new wrinkle on human anatomy that I did not learn.

Lastly, no one is asserting that having strength in the back is a bad thing. The original assertion was that kipping pullups somehow translated into punching power.

They do not!



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Old 05-09-2005, 09:02 PM   #44
Stephen Troy
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My last on this, and notice from my previous posts I wasn't in the kipping pullups = more punching power camp.

Consult with any MA or boxing striking instructor on the involvement of the back in punching. The back doesn't propel the punch, it prevents the power from dissipating on impact (hence my comment on "leakage").

Your attitude is kind of funny considering your "brucelee" Username. Notice any interesting characteristics of his upper body? Read any of his books?
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Old 05-10-2005, 04:44 AM   #45
John Walsh
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Richard,

Just out of curiosity. How many bouts have had?

Stephen,

If you stick with CF,which I hope you will,you will change your opinion on pullups and power/absolute strength.
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Old 05-10-2005, 05:17 AM   #46
John Walsh
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Stephen,

I’m not all over the place here. Speak for yourself please. I’m contending that kipping pull-ups improve punching power. So do snatches, clean and jerks, push-ups, squats and a variety of other exercises that recruit muscles through out the entire body in an explosive fashion. Lets read it again: “I would tend to think that pull-ups, the kipping variation in particular, would have great carryover to punching strength due to the transfer of energy from the hip to the shoulder girdle.”

Answer: yes. The statement was not that kipping pull-ups were the best or in the top ten. You’ll find that everything we do here in our WOD is complimentary. Virtually all the exercises that we do here we not only create more punching power but they will also help one to hit a baseball farther and sprint faster. Ideally CF should allow you the fitness level to play any sport at any time.

Throwing a punch or a baseball for that matter involves the recruitment of muscles throughout the entire body. Any multi joint exercise that recruits muscles throughout the body will increase power in this activity. Think of exercises that we do as teaching the body to recruit explosiveness/power. This is not bodybuilding. We are not isolating. Check out the “What is Fitness” CF journal for a greater understanding of what we are accomplishing here: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-download/CFJ-trial.pdf.

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Old 05-10-2005, 07:06 AM   #47
Richard Belloff
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Quick comments-

I have boxed GG and done martial arts for over 30 years. Thrown a few punches in my time. That does not mean anything per se but this is a subject I know something about.

Pt 2-show punchers with impressive back development means nothing. There are some great great punchers who were not very developed, Marciano comes to mind. Fact is, MOST good punchers are quite fit and sport impressive though not massive muscles pretty much everywhere.

pt3-the lats are involved as stabilizers in punching, not as movers. So, tell me how this makes the kipping pullups somehow a great exercise for punchers? Again, the biomechanics of movement rule here. The lats simply don't so much in punching as compared to the prime movers.

To wit, all of us must decide what exercise to use to train and we only have so much time and recover ability. If it were me and i had to choose say between kipping pullups and chopping wood, I would chop wood if punching power was my issue.

You can't re-invent physics and biomechanics because you like a part. exercise. I love doing pullups but don't delude myself into thinking they are making me a great puncher.

They do make my lats bigger though and I like that!!!!

BTW-the lats DO come into play big time if I am grabbing behind the head and hitting on the break so that DOES help punching is some way, no?

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Old 05-10-2005, 07:15 AM   #48
bill fox
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Richard

You said

"the lats are involved as stabilizers in punching, not as movers. So, tell me how this makes the kipping pullups somehow a great exercise for punchers? Again, the biomechanics of movement rule here. The lats simply don't so much in punching as compared to the prime movers."

Ever hear this one

"The body is one piece" D.J.

or

"You can't shoot a cannon out of a canoe" P.T.

Bill
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:46 AM   #49
John Walsh
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Marciano not developed?!?

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/10118.jpg
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:57 AM   #50
Graham Hayes
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'You're only as strong as your weakest part.' - S.O.
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