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Old 05-09-2005, 10:03 AM   #31
Sonia Ng
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"Furthermore, you have to start working with experienced trainees, since damn near anything remotely productive will increase power in untrained punchers."

Very true.
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:10 AM   #32
Don Woodson
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I remember county fairs and carnivals that had this machine with a speed bag that you hit as hard as you could, and it would somehow measure your punching power. How accurate they were I have no idea. The measurements were recorded in incremental terms from wussy to he-man, or something like that.
Anybody remember those, and what they were called?
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:19 AM   #33
John Walsh
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Man do you guys nerd things up with scientific studies and punching power measurements. The KO is the best indicator of punching power. Lewis, Holyfield, Louis, Marciano, Tyson, the Klitschos all have/had powerful backs and are/were big KO guys. You need strong lats for a big punch. There are other ways to get strong lats but the pull up is the best and kipping pull-ups are superior to non-kipping pull-ups so yes kipping pull-ups increase punching power along with dozens of other exercises. Yes I know I am opening a can of worms with the whole kipping vs. non-kipping debate but my experience has indicated this to be true. I fought from the ages of 8 to 33 and in every gym I trained in guys supplemented their routines with pushups, pull-ups, air squats, burpees and sit-ups. These were not randomly chosen exercises. We used them because they worked.
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:28 AM   #34
Stephen Troy
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"There are other ways to get strong lats but the pull up is the best"

Respectfully, and assuming you mean BW pullups, that's not true and it's not even close. Deadlifts, rows, and cleans will all build a stronger back than pullups. Not that pullups can't have a prominent place in training, but it's not the most effective lat strength builder.
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:43 AM   #35
bill fox
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Stephen

You're going to get frustrated until you actually do the WOD for a couple months. I went from 10 DLs with 225 to 18 only DLing once over the 4 weeks in between. Of course there a hundred varialbles at work, volume,rest, etc...but I have made a quantum shift in my "understanding" of what statements like "DLs, cleans and rows will build a stronger back then pullups".

Bill
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:50 AM   #36
Stephen Troy
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I'm not frustrated, seriously.

I know you well enough to accept your endorsement. There are indeed a hundred variables at work, my KB training ramped up my ability to partial DL big time, despite not DLing for over a year, so I'm not dismissing the fact that non-specific work can improve performance.

I think we need to be careful, however, when zeroing in on 1 of those 100's of variables (e.g., the kipping PU), and saying "This is what did it." Or, and especially, making superlative statements about one exercise in the CF arsenal.

JM(openminded)O
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Old 05-09-2005, 11:01 AM   #37
John Walsh
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Not only is it close but it’s also very true. Nothing builds the lats like pull-ups. Deads are the greatest for the entire back of the body. I am a huge advocate of deads. I’m not as sold on rows. Deads simply don’t hit the same muscle chain as pull-ups. I came to CF deadlifting 600 pounds and couldn’t do 10 pull-ups to save my life. Add kipping into the equation and your now recruiting the hips and legs.

The original questions was: “I would tend to think that pull-ups, the kipping variation in particular, would have great carryover to punching strength due to the transfer of energy from the hip to the shoulder girdle.” The answer is an unequivocal yes. We have lots of striking athletes on this site and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we do kipping pull-ups so frequently. To answer “no” as Richard did is to miss the point of the question. Are kipping pull-ups the best method to increasing punching power? No but that wasn’t the question. The question is do they have carry over to punching strength? Yes they do.

Repeat after me: Power output, power output, power output.


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Old 05-09-2005, 11:15 AM   #38
Stephen Troy
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John, you're describing a few different attributes here, and maybe that's where the confusion is coming from. The statement I was referring to was where you mentioned specifically strength. If pullups built the strongest lats, powerlifters would do them. They simply don't.

You last post you mention: "Nothing builds the lats like pull-ups." I don't know if you mean strength or size here, but it's neither, again see powerlifters and bodybuilders. It's not a high-tension enough exercise *by itself*, unless you add weight.

"Repeat after me: Power output, power output, power output."

Now this is a completely different question. Strength and size does not necessarily mean power, particularly since the resting tension from heavy, high volume work will slow you down.
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Old 05-09-2005, 11:34 AM   #39
John Walsh
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No I am not confusing attributes here I’m talking about power. Will kipping pull-ups increase punching power? Yes, yes and yes.

I was a powerlifter for a number of years as well and powerlifters do pull-ups not only to increase their deads but also to increase their bench. Check out the Westside routine. However I’m not taking about powerlifters. I’m talking about kipping pull-ups and punching power.

You can pretty much rest assured that I am always talking about strength/power . I’ll leave size to the preacher curl crowd.

“It's not a high-tension enough exercise *by itself*, unless you add weight.” Says who? How many continuous pull-ups can you do on power rings?
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Old 05-09-2005, 11:52 AM   #40
Stephen Troy
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We seem to be all over the place here. I'm trying to not be antagonistic, but at the same time the target of discussion moves around. I also specifically said, "the confusion" as in it's a miscommunication, not "you are confused."

As to the original question: "I would tend to think that pullups, the kipping variation in particular, would have great carryover to punching strength due to the transfer of energy from the hip to the shoulder girdle."

IMO they would not hurt, as I said in my initial statement, there are at least 10 better exercises. Just my opinion.

"“It's not a high-tension enough exercise *by itself*, unless you add weight.” Says who? How many continuous pull-ups can you do on power rings? "

For absolute strength, just about everybody says that, including the guys with the world's strongest backs. Punching power assistance is a different animal. Now that I know what you were referring to your statement makes more sense.

Don't own power rings, my pullup PR was 32, but that was several years and pounds ago. FWIW, 2 sets of pullups daily (kipping allowed) was on my karate classes agenda, so I'm not knocking the exercise.
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