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Old 11-28-2007, 09:30 PM   #1
David Bott
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Why MMA/KM?

I'm just curious why so many people seem to pretty much only consider MMA as a training option? Although I realise Krav Maga is very popular lately as well, but what happened to good old Japanese Jiu Jitsu?

I'll admit if one wants only to be competitive MMA is a good choice, but for general self-defense, what is wrong with JJ? It has all the principles of MMA or KM, albeit explained differrently, but from what little I know of MMA/KM, the underlying technique principles are essentially the same.

So I'm just curious as to why people favour MMA/KM etc over Jiu Jitsu.

Thanks.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:45 PM   #2
James Besenyei
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Plenty of people still train JJ, BJJ, Karate, Judo, etc. I would argue most students train exclusively in one art while dabbling in others if and when they have time; and may move into serious MMA training after they get a taste of competition and/or are discovered in smaller, local events.

MMA is very popular right now and I know that many schools are using the term to bring in students who otherwise wouldn't be interested (local TKD dojang listing MMA training in a flyer; local Shotokan dojo listing MMA in window). In their defense some schools have brought in other instructors from different schools to train in different arts (i.e., one day a week the Shotokan dojo has a BJJ instructor come in to teach grappling & the Shotokan guy goes to the other training facility, and so on).

As far as true "MMA" centers, they will be growing in popularity and more will spring up as MMA professionals seek out something to do after their fighting career is over. But the base of martial arts should remain of the local mom & pop variety or regionally based facilities (IMHO).
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:29 PM   #3
Becca Borawski
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

No one should be studying MMA thinking they're learning self-defense. MMA is a sport. The techniques you learn are optimized for application within a certain set of rules -- those don't exist in the real world.

Nor should anyone who is studying Japanese Jujitsu think they're learning self-defense, quite frankly. Knowing how to hack up bamboo with a katana has no "realistic" application. Yes, you learn locks, throws, striking, etc - but the vast majority of it, in my opinion, will not really do much good in a self-defense situation. Traditional martial arts tend to be too complicated in their movements to have much realistic application. Are you going to train all those moves enough times to have instinctual response with them when someone attacks you? Likely not. And how many traditional martial arts schools train "live"? Most I've been train in slow stilted motions without any real sparring incorporated into their programs.

Self-defense is one of the biggest myths, and biggest marketing ploys, of the martial arts world. At best, it's a disservice to the people seeking to learn actual self-defense, at worst it's irresponsible and dangerous.

Self-defense, to be effective, needs to be simple, memorable, and executable.
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:24 AM   #4
Francisco Galarce Morales
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

I have a first degree black belt in japanese jiujitsu....

I love it.. but it is not a sport.. it's selfdefense... and they don't really work on conditioning.. enough drill to kick the dude in the bar's *** and the other selfdefense situation... but not to go 15 minutes all out (but then again the idea behind jjj is to end the fight as soon as possible)..

the combination works good for me.. (also got a black belt judo).. you got some technique's you can suprise some bjj'ers and mma fighters with.. and being busy with self defense is fun
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:50 AM   #5
Jake A Shannon
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Quote:
Self-defense is one of the biggest myths, and biggest marketing ploys, of the martial arts world. At best, it's a disservice to the people seeking to learn actual self-defense, at worst it's irresponsible and dangerous.
I couldn't agree more.

Buy a handgun, mace, put 911 on speed dial, don't make yourself a target, polish your communication skills, etc. if you want to effectively protect yourself and your family IMO.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:52 AM   #6
Ellen Stenard
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

Buying a handgun or mace without learning how to use it properly and consistently practicing with it is more dangerous than not having a weapon IMHO. Not to mention one needs to be very aware of one's own limitations as to when and if you'd be 100% comfortable killing another human. We all have different boundaries as to where that line is and IMHO it's important to know where yours is before you consider a weapon for self defense.

Becca, I agree with you almost 100%. One thing I think training MMA has done for me in the area of self defense is that it's given me a more realistic view of what it feels like to be attacked by a much bigger and stronger person. Something I never felt while practicing traditional martial arts, even self defense oriented ones, where punches were pulled and attacks were choreographed. I'm always worried when I see self defense clinics that promise women their techniques will enable them to fight off someone much bigger than them. It's possible for sure, but it's much more difficult than these clinics make it out to be. Getting punched and immobilized by guys less skilled but physically bigger than me is certainly an eye opener that I'm greatful to have had.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:47 PM   #7
Anton Emery
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

I think the advantage that MMA/BJJ/Judo/Wrestling/Boxing/Kickboxing has is in the delivery system and the skill sets that you learn. You are working against realistic resistance and learning to apply the techniques against someone who doesnt want to get hit, submitted, or taken down. Alot of the traditional martial arts just don't incorporate this. I took Shotokan karate for years but could never really fight. We would practice our one step sparring, blocks, punches, etc. But when it came time to suit up and spar everything just went out the window, and the guys that did good were the ones that had previous fighting ability. Having practiced BJJ now for a few years i know my techniques work because i can apply them on a variety of opponents in an alive situation. I dont win all the time, but i have a realistic gauge of my ability.

I cant really comment on the Krav Maga end of things. Alot of the video i have seen on that stuff seems choreographed, but i think the gun and knife defense techniques are useful if drilled correctly and then practiced in an alive manner.

Anton
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:11 PM   #8
David Bott
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by Becca Borawski View Post
Nor should anyone who is studying Japanese Jujitsu think they're learning self-defense, quite frankly. Knowing how to hack up bamboo with a katana has no "realistic" application. Yes, you learn locks, throws, striking, etc - but the vast majority of it, in my opinion, will not really do much good in a self-defense situation. Traditional martial arts tend to be too complicated in their movements to have much realistic application. Are you going to train all those moves enough times to have instinctual response with them when someone attacks you? Likely not. And how many traditional martial arts schools train "live"? Most I've been train in slow stilted motions without any real sparring incorporated into their programs.
Self-defense, to be effective, needs to be simple, memorable, and executable.

I don't think alot of Jiu Jitsu schools "hack up bamboo with katanas", plus why wont the locks, throws and strikes help ina real situation?? These same techniques are taught to many specialist groups such as security, police, customs officers etc.

The complicated techniques are a 'guide' to teaching the underlying principles of what makes them work. Of course you're not going to do a long, multi-circular technique in the real world... but often one must learn the large stuff to get to the small simple stuff, and to properly understand it. I have seen techniques taught whichthe instructor flat-out said, "this has no real-world application, you would not do this." But it is taught to get other points of understanding across.

Plus alot of the "slow stilted" training is done because a: people are still learning it and would be insane to throw themselves at it 100% and b: you will quite likely get hurt. Imagine if an instructor said "Right today we are going to learn this throw here.... here it is now go at each other 100%." Would you put something on someone you are still learning 'full-on'? Worse yet would you care to receive it from someone you know is only learning the technique???

And very few "traditional" (I don't like that term as every martial art has changed over time) schools do much sparring, simply because sparring is not self-defense. Sparring is fighting, Jiu Jitsu is fight ending.

Sorry Becca I'mnot singling you out or anything, but what you said, I think, are ideas shared by alot of people
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:16 PM   #9
David Bott
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

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Originally Posted by Jake A Shannon View Post
I couldn't agree more.

Buy a handgun, mace, put 911 on speed dial, don't make yourself a target, polish your communication skills, etc. if you want to effectively protect yourself and your family IMO.
I live in Australia and purchasing a handgun or mace is simply not an option. Same with butterfly/flick knives, extendible batons, nunchaku, tonfa, heck even those Kubotan keyring thingies are illegal here!
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:21 PM   #10
Chris Drewry
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Re: Why MMA/KM?

I practice Krav Maga for the same reasons I practice CrossFit. Its functional and efficient.
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