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Old 05-14-2009, 09:43 PM   #21
Becca Borawski
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

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Originally Posted by Laurie Carver View Post
KI don't have anything to complain about although I personally have put on size in the butt and legs doing CrossFit for 2 years and following Paleo/Zone.
Remind the girls that's not a bad thing, regarding performance OR aesthetics -- as I heard a teammate remark at the SoCal CF Games qualifiers, "CrossFit is an a$$-man's paradise."
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:57 PM   #22
Craig Massey
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

This,
TM: How much of this business is about being a "people person" and speaking the right language?
AC: It's irrelevant how much physiology you know if you don't have your psychology down.
A few years ago, an employee had a female client who told him she didn't want to get "too big." He told her, "You don't need to worry about that because of Testosterone, IGF-1, growth hormone, blah blah blah."
What that female client heard him say was, "**** your idea." She had a genuine concern. She didn't know about hormones. He was belittling her concern. It's actually insulting to someone.
So what I usually say in those situations is, "I understand. 'Too big' is a relative term. What I think is too big and what you think is too big could be different. So I'd like you to bring in a picture of what you want to look like and a picture of someone who's a little too big. And I will guarantee that my results are exactly what you're looking for."
Now, I'm not lying to this client. I'm just building a relationship. I'm speaking her language and I'm starting to get her to buy in that I'm her coach and I'm there to help her.
was posted on T-Nation. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...s_professional (Link may not be WFS. Some language, the excerpt is a representative sample, is not family safe and the pictures on T-Nation can be less than WFS at times)

I think the article at some stage poo-poo's CrossFit, but I was more interested in reading how Alwyn Cosgrove dealt with exactly the issue you're describing. His approach seems quite sensible to me, having made exactly the mistake he illustrates.

Hopefuly it will at least give you some idea of approaches you could try.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:19 PM   #23
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

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Originally Posted by Becca Borawski View Post
Remind the girls that's not a bad thing, regarding performance OR aesthetics -- as I heard a teammate remark at the SoCal CF Games qualifiers, "CrossFit is an a$$-man's paradise."
Yeah, that. My husband certainly likes my legs the way they are.

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Old 05-15-2009, 12:48 AM   #24
Steven Low
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

1. "Bulky" is most of the time as simple as putting down the fork. Of course, assuming quality food choices.

2. It's extremely hard for women to bulk up anyway even lifting heavy weights because they lack the amount of testosterone that men have.

3. And no one every got HYOOGE in a day... or even a year. I know pretty much most guys, especially bodybuilders, who wish this was the case....


Point being, it shouldn't be anything for women to worry about. And if it is they may just have the genetics for the propensity to put on muscle mass...... but most of the time it's warped self image sadly to say.
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:09 AM   #25
Craig Massey
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
1. "Bulky" is most of the time as simple as putting down the fork. Of course, assuming quality food choices.

2. It's extremely hard for women to bulk up anyway even lifting heavy weights because they lack the amount of testosterone that men have.

3. And no one every got HYOOGE in a day... or even a year. I know pretty much most guys, especially bodybuilders, who wish this was the case....


Point being, it shouldn't be anything for women to worry about. And if it is they may just have the genetics for the propensity to put on muscle mass...... but most of the time it's warped self image sadly to say.
Which exactly proves the point of that article.
Tell all of those facts to a woman who's just said she's scared of looking like a man and she'll go to the trainer who tells her he can help her look like she wants to look like.

Say what Alwyn does and you'll have a chance at changing her perception of how she wants to look to something that is both achievable and representative of a healthy athletic lifestyle. Logic will never outweigh a conditioned emotional response.

Oh and I quite agree Katherine and Becca, the most attractive female bodies I've ever seen are in CrossFit videos and photographs and gyms. And what's even more attractive than strict appearance is that those bodies function.
They're not just for decoration.
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:47 AM   #26
Robert Anthony
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

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Originally Posted by Laurie Carver View Post
Kelly..thank you so much for your response. That's they way I experienced it myself. I don't have anything to complain about although I personally have put on size in the butt and legs doing CrossFit for 2 years and following Paleo/Zone.
I've just recently added an Endurance WOD 2 x week. I think patience is the answer for my clients as well as diet, but I wanted some additional input and really appreciate it. At times I've questioned things...thinking that the hormonal response could have something to do with it...or the rep range of 12-15 etc...Logically I know, but I'm dealing with a mix of clients and sometimes it takes a lot of patience to help them wrap their mind around the CrossFit program. They don't want to look like "Shape" magazine, and they are empowered by getting strong. I don't feel there is anything wrong with wanting to be fit, strong and look a certain way aesthetically too.
I agree with you Laurie. My wife is very hesitant with starting CF for a lot of the reasons you have stated. When she sees videos form CF qualifiers, she is impressed by their strength and stamina. But often comments on their bulk, no offense intended. Instead of scaring her off completely, why not CF lite for awhile and then maybe her opinion of the female body and what it should look like might change. I would rather bring her into the community first and let her decide for herself after the fact. If I tell her CF lite is not CF and to quit being a poser, she may never try it. Television and print have given women the wrong idea on what is right, right is and should be different for everyone.

If your clients are getting in better shape and living healthier then CF lite shouldn't be a problem. Once they get in and understand maybe their opinion will change. CF is a way a life as I read it here in everyone's post everyday, it will not happen over night. Laurie keep up the good work it looks like you are sticking to the full CF methodology.

In regards to how people respond to others in real life and forum world, through acceptance/understanding way more will be accomplished for the CF community than telling people that what they are doing is completely wrong. This is coming from a brand new CFer. This does not advocate letting "trolls" in and subverting the CF program and coach's teachings. Also, it does not advocate letting people do things incorrectly. However, you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. As Kyle stated, once they are in the box, then their opinion may change. If they never show up, what can you accomplish.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:40 AM   #27
Amy Tompkins
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

I'm a bigger fan of "convince them that weight lifting is to their benefit and won't make them huge" before "tone it down for teh ladies."

I really think we need a "women of CrossFit" gallery highlighting some of the awesome power and physiques found in women of this community. Concrete, visible proof that CrossFit won't make a lady turn into a she-hulk. It would be nice to have more pictures of the ladies in casual poses. If you're looking at pics of CrossFit ladies taken while mid-workout you will often see more 'bulk' than is really there because they're flexing/using those muscles. I have a pic of myself during a tire flip and it makes me look like I have major guns (which I don't). Next to each picture in the gallery should be some stats on how much weight they can deadlift, squat, etc.

If they're particularly worried about more muscle in their shoulders or arms, tell them what a good thing that is for 'balancing' their figure. Since most women carry a lot of weight in the hips/thighs, wider and more defined shoulders create a better visual symmetry.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:46 AM   #28
Tirzah Harper
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Massey View Post
This,
TM: How much of this business is about being a "people person" and speaking the right language?
AC: It's irrelevant how much physiology you know if you don't have your psychology down.
A few years ago, an employee had a female client who told him she didn't want to get "too big." He told her, "You don't need to worry about that because of Testosterone, IGF-1, growth hormone, blah blah blah."
What that female client heard him say was, "**** your idea." She had a genuine concern. She didn't know about hormones. He was belittling her concern. It's actually insulting to someone.
So what I usually say in those situations is, "I understand. 'Too big' is a relative term. What I think is too big and what you think is too big could be different. So I'd like you to bring in a picture of what you want to look like and a picture of someone who's a little too big. And I will guarantee that my results are exactly what you're looking for."
Now, I'm not lying to this client. I'm just building a relationship. I'm speaking her language and I'm starting to get her to buy in that I'm her coach and I'm there to help her.
was posted on T-Nation. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...s_professional (Link may not be WFS. Some language, the excerpt is a representative sample, is not family safe and the pictures on T-Nation can be less than WFS at times)
Yeah, that.

I will say:

I put on weight during CF. Maybe half of it was muscle; the other half was fat from having more stress than I could deal with. The muscle I liked; the fat I didn't. And it was the metcons that stressed my body more than the heavy weights.

Some women put on more muscle than others. Some women like that look and some don't. I've been doing a low level of training over the winter and I really miss the muscles I used to have more of.

CF isn't for everyone. If you've got clients who are afraid of "bulking up" more than they want to kick ***, crossfit is probably not their best choice.
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Last edited by Tirzah Harper : 05-15-2009 at 05:47 AM. Reason: formatting
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:47 AM   #29
Mat Frankel
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

Correct me if im wrong, but to get big and bulky don't you have to eat big and bulky?
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:06 AM   #30
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Does that CrossFit make women big?

[In regards to how people respond to others in real life and forum world, through acceptance/understanding way more will be accomplished for the CF community than telling people that what they are doing is completely wrong. This is coming from a brand new CFer. This does not advocate letting "trolls" in and subverting the CF program and coach's teachings. Also, it does not advocate letting people do things incorrectly. However, you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. As Kyle stated, once they are in the box, then their opinion may change. If they never show up, what can you accomplish.[/quote]

I'm going to guess that this is partially aimed at me. CrossFit is a strength & Conditioning program. If I remove the strength portion of that, IT IS NOT CROSSFIT. It may make clients happy, that's important, but the strength aspect makes the conditioning aspect more valid. And the strength will have longer lasting benefits, i.e. I can open jars, carry my own groceries, help move my own furniture, stay mobile and osteoporosis free in my senior years. I am a Level I, and KB trainer, but I am not a "trainer" I believe part of a CF trainer's job is to bridge that gap between aesthetic concerns and performance, and I think Kelly, Becca, Katherine and Craig had some awesome ideas to accomplish that. Guys have the exact same problem in reverse with is this stuff going to make me big?

This is also made easier, I would imagine, by the fact that if you explore the CF universe, in person, and online, there is almost irrefutable proof that CF girls are HOT. (I admit to an unabashedly male perspective on this, with no apologies) OP, your avatar does nothing to dispel this. It's truly sad that anyone would reject looking or more importantly being strong or that the mores of society would encourage that.
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