Competition trianing The Outlaw Way vs. CrossFit Invictus...

[Sean M Hutchinson]

So i've been following both groups and checking out there competition training that they post. I actually started doing the CrossFit Invictus Competition workouts and they seem to be at a good level for me with the prescribed weights and volume of work to where I feel like i did a lot but still am able to recover for the next days workouts. Does anybody have an opinion on whether or not one program is better than the other??

I know my biggest thought is..."The best program is the one you follow and stick with." No argument there. My only thing is that Outlaw CrossFit seems to have a ton of volume from the olympic lifts. I know they are important but at the same time, it almost seems like overkill. Thoughts, comments are welcome! Thanks guys and gals!

[Jeff Binek]

Goals, time, mindset and ability need to determine which program you feel comfortable following. If your goal is simply 'to compete' then you need to do an honest evaluation of your weaknesses, and pick a program that is well-rounded but most effectively leans on your weaknesses to progress your training. I.e. if you are a weak olympic lifter (guy that would be anything less than Snatching ~230, C&J'ing 280 for regionals, Sn 250, C&J 300+ for games, and squatting ~2x BW) then you should probably follow Outlaw, as the 'overkill' is necessary to progress your Oly work to that level. I agree with the best program is something you stick with...I also agree that most programs can be successful if you give an honest 100% every day, and hit things equally.

[Andrew Bell]

Outlaws results speak for themselves. Rudy has a good grasp on what is needed for most cf'ers to get to that level, getting more proficient at the lifts, and how to program skill work into the met cons.

CJ over at Invictus knows his stuff too. As far as I know this will be the first year that he has made his games prep open to the public, so we should see some people and how they do start popping up quickly once the open starts.

[Joshua Foladare]

Check out misfit-training.com. Drew and Seth know there stuff and do a great job of making the program moldable for what you need.

I've seen a ton of improvement since following and would think it is worth taking a look at.

With that said, since it seems like you have an Olympic lifting background, of the two you mentioned, CF Invictus may be your best bet as it has more of a "crossfit" exercise and movement focus. Can't go wrong either way.

[Michael Cook]

Sean - your Olympic lifting is great, but to be competitive at the Regional and Games level in Crossfit, you need to be able to do WODs with longer sets of medium-heavy weights.

If you haven't already done so, look at the WODs from the Open, Regional and Games from last year.

[Josh Deets]

Originally Posted by Sean M Hutchinson

I know my biggest thought is..."The best program is the one you follow and stick with." No argument there. My only thing is that Outlaw CrossFit seems to have a ton of volume from the olympic lifts. I know they are important but at the same time, it almost seems like overkill. Thoughts, comments are welcome! Thanks guys and gals!

"We are not programming for and coaching athletes to be Olympic Weightlifters. Our athletes success in Olympic Weightlifting is secondary to the fact that to be successful in the “sport of fitness”, they must be good Weightlifters. Rich Froning’s 293kg Total (in f-ing Nanos), would have been good for 3rd place at the 2012 American Open. Rich Froning is the two-time CrossFit Games champion."-Coach Rudy Site/blog has some language.(Bold and italics are mine)

[Sean M Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Josh Deets

"We are not programming for and coaching athletes to be Olympic Weightlifters. Our athletes success in Olympic Weightlifting is secondary to the fact that to be successful in the “sport of fitness”, they must be good Weightlifters. Rich Froning’s 293kg Total (in f-ing Nanos), would have been good for 3rd place at the 2012 American Open. Rich Froning is the two-time CrossFit Games champion."-Coach Rudy Site/blog has some language.(Bold and italics are mine)

My point is I am already a successful Olympic weightlifter trying to get into CrossFit. I snatch close to double body weight and clean and jerk close to 2.5x's body weight. I think i'm good on the lifting part. That's why I was asking. Thanks anyways.

[Josh Deets]

Originally Posted by Sean M Hutchinson

My point is I am already a successful Olympic weightlifter trying to get into CrossFit. I snatch close to double body weight and clean and jerk close to 2.5x's body weight. I think i'm good on the lifting part. That's why I was asking. Thanks anyways.

Ah. I was unawares. Carry on good sir.

[Sean Dunston]

Originally Posted by Sean M Hutchinson

My point is I am already a successful Olympic weightlifter trying to get into CrossFit. I snatch close to double body weight and clean and jerk close to 2.5x's body weight. I think i'm good on the lifting part. That's why I was asking. Thanks anyways.

Sean (great name - by the way), you're probably one of the few exceptions to the rule.
Most CFers come to CrossFit with very little, if any, weightlifting background. I coached with, and was trained by, Rudy for about six years prior to opening my own gym. his programming for competitive CFers is solid, and his record in last year's Games speaks for itself. As the quote above illustrates, he believes (rightly so) that in the Games season, a competitor MUST have an excellent foundation in weightlifting. without it, the competitor will be crushed.
My guess would be that you wouldn't need near the volume of weightlifting training as most of the typical Outlaw Way followers. What you probably could benefit from, however, is the rest of his program.
My suggestion would be to substitute his weightlifting programming with your existing weightlifting training, then add the rest of his program to your training and see how it works for you.
best of luck.

[Sean M Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Sean Dunston

Sean (great name - by the way), you're probably one of the few exceptions to the rule.
Most CFers come to CrossFit with very little, if any, weightlifting background. I coached with, and was trained by, Rudy for about six years prior to opening my own gym. his programming for competitive CFers is solid, and his record in last year's Games speaks for itself. As the quote above illustrates, he believes (rightly so) that in the Games season, a competitor MUST have an excellent foundation in weightlifting. without it, the competitor will be crushed.
My guess would be that you wouldn't need near the volume of weightlifting training as most of the typical Outlaw Way followers. What you probably could benefit from, however, is the rest of his program.
My suggestion would be to substitute his weightlifting programming with your existing weightlifting training, then add the rest of his program to your training and see how it works for you.
best of luck.

That's actually what I was going to start doing monday! I followed invictus for a couple weeks but wasn't really feeling it. Some of the workouts even seemed very repetitive. My biggest downfall is the metcon part, even though i've made some huge improvements already. I think most of it has to do with learning how and when to push my body so I don't burn out. I'm still recovering from an elbow injury from November so my lifts aren't as strong as they could be but I'm slowly picking the weight back up. I'm at about 90% of my competition best so far. Thanks for the response Sean, great name by the way and great spelling!